Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
If you live with mental illness — or love someone who does — and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast with dark humor and lived-experience truth. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and frequently joined by co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we have brutally honest conversations about serious mental illness, trauma, and the real-world systems that shape mental health. Topics include schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, psychosis, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction recovery, religious trauma, psychiatric medication, disability, good therapy, bad therapy, psych wards, and practical real-world coping — plus relationships, family dysfunction, work, creativity, and society.
You’ll hear:
- Lived-experience perspective from someone navigating psychosis, relapse, parenting, and recovery in real time.
- No-BS conversations about what helps, what doesn’t, and what the mental health stigma gets wrong.
- Dark humor and honest storytelling that educates and humanizes instead of sensationalizing.
- Interviews with everyday people, professionals, and notable guests, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are.
This show is for anyone trying to survive therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos — or trying to understand a loved one who is. If you want language for what you’re experiencing, conversations that don’t flinch, and a judgment-free vibe with some laughs along the way, you’re in the right place.
We’re not your therapists — we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
Friendship, Mental Illness & Peer Support | Ryan Manning
Explore how friendship and peer support can be lifelines in the face of mental illness with my guest, Ryan Manning.
In this candid episode about mental health, we delve into how the quiet presence of friends can make a world of difference. Discussing schizoaffective storms, the awkwardness of showing up without trying to "fix" problems, and the importance of empathy and accountability, we highlight simple habits that strengthen support.
Key discussions include:
- How long-term friendships endure the challenges of secrecy and symptoms
- The value of simply being present versus trying to solve problems
- Utilizing humor as a connecting force when things get tough
- Practical actions that genuinely help—and what to avoid
If you or someone you know struggles with mental health, join this intimate chat to uncover the quiet yet powerful ways friendship sustains recovery. Don't forget to reach out for support when needed.
Post one support move you’ll try this week on our Discord "The Struggle Bus"—we’ll help you refine it so it actually lands. (link below)
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.
We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
...Uh you just call me Ryan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You want to be called Ryan? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Mad Dog Ryan. It Ryan What? Mad Dog Ryan?
SPEAKER_03:Mad Dog. Yeah. No, no.
SPEAKER_00:I like it. That's hot. That's hot. Welcome to beat the mental health out of it. Thank you. Hey, I'm doing the intro and then you get to get to say thank you. I fucked it up already. Yeah, let's start up here. Welcome to Beat the Mental Health. God damn it, I'm trying to talk here. Who's the host here? Not Ryan, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, I'm the guest here.
SPEAKER_00:You are the guest. You are the guest. What great guest you are. Hopefully a recurring guest.
SPEAKER_03:Hopefully, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to Beat the Mental Health Out of It with your host, the defective schizo effective aka. Nick, this is Ryan. Yeah, I think we already established that. How's it going, Ryan?
SPEAKER_03:Uh, just generally, or like just do you want like specifics or just kind of we just do it?
SPEAKER_00:I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Great. Yeah, I think we start off with that whole thing of like, you know, people ask how you're doing, it's like fine, and then you just talk off.
SPEAKER_03:The typical answer to that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just like just fine, you know, even though we're all fucking not fine.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So history about us, we've never met before. Came across you on TikTok and thought you were really pretty. And I thought, I gotta, I gotta interview that guy. I don't know what he has to say. Nothing. But as long as he's on camera, it's guaranteed to give viewers. Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I appreciate that. Yeah. There's not there's not almost 20 years of relationship. It is about 20, isn't it? It's almost 20 years. That is crazy. I was kind of thinking about it. I mean, there's some, you know, we've known each other for probably 20 years, a little over 20 years.
SPEAKER_00:Um each other, yeah, and then probably close. I don't know, years or years. Close a long time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. But we, you know, there's several years where you kind of fell out of um our lives. When I say our, I mean Paul and I, you, me and Paul. Are we naming Paul?
SPEAKER_00:Are we gonna name him?
SPEAKER_03:Fuck yeah. It's kind of impossible to talk about you and me without talking about Paul.
SPEAKER_00:I thought we were gonna refer to him as his D uh D D Shea or Trade A. D She.
SPEAKER_03:Trade A, D D C D.
SPEAKER_00:From now on, guys, Paul E D trade triple D or whatever the hell.
SPEAKER_03:Whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Uh we halfway gave away his name with the triple D. That's what's really funny. Anyway. But uh yeah, so yeah, our art our history is pretty pretty solid, pretty much.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I think I think there's maybe a little bit of um insight that I can give that all and also after listening to your last episode, um there's a lot that I after 20 years I still don't know about you.
SPEAKER_00:Really? You know, you learned stuff in that episode, truly.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I did. I did. It's also you know, there's stories. I think even it was true when you're talking to Tony. Like even Tony had moments where, yeah, we've heard these stories before, but yeah. I think there was a certain level of sincerity that you had that you know, we've we've all heard the stories probably a thousand times at this point. Yeah, many times. But I don't know. It uh you know, it was like a different context of hearing that same story. I think maybe maybe it's it's kind of eye-opening in some ways, um, the gravity of it. Um because you gotta remember we also have been hearing this story since we were little we were kids, right?
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, I mean that one happened when it was Momo was 16. No, my grandmother was 16, so that's you know, we're 32 now. Yeah, so almost 33 old timer.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and and admittedly, you know, I wasn't I wasn't there for a lot of your hardest moments, you know. Um that is true.
SPEAKER_00:Gosh, I didn't even think about that. See, Paul would have been.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Paul Paul was Paul would have been. So we should probably talk about you and me and our history, and I we could again sort of talk about you and me without talking about.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's the thing. We'll bring him into it, and hopefully he does a fucking episode at some point. I think that'd be amazing if the three of us did. What a dick. We hate him.
SPEAKER_03:You and Paul, you guys have known each other for pretty much your entire lives. I mean, really. Uh no, we have.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, since kindergarten we've known.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So you guys have really been been close for a very long time. So I think Paul, you know, because of that, um, had a little bit more insight into your life just uh generally. Um yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And then I moved to Triton, where we went to school. I moved to Triton in fourth grade.
SPEAKER_00:Fourth grade, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That is right.
SPEAKER_03:And then you I don't remember if Paul was Paul in our fourth grade class.
SPEAKER_00:No, you and I were in Jackson, and then he was in, wasn't he in nah, it doesn't matter. He was in a separate one, I think. Because you and I, that's where we really got connected, was you and I were in the same class. And then Paul and I were really close, so I ended up bringing you into that to make that trio or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And that, yeah, that's kind of how you two got close, and then um eventually I fell out of the fold, kind of due to my own thing. Um part of it was, you know, I had friends who were starting a band, and what's crazy is we ended up in a band later. It's kind of crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you you, me, and Paul. Yeah, but um, oh, there's there's more to that story, too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, there is. There's a lot to that one. Um, but I mean, I kind of fell out because of dealing with mental shit, you know, right around that time is when I would have done the attempts and all that, I imagine. I mean, yeah. It's hard for me to, you know, quant how you quantize everything or whatever exactly timeline wise, but it it had to have been around that time. Well, that's what I was thinking, seventh grade would have been when I was dealing with that. Um track.
SPEAKER_03:You said your your final suicide attempt with the gun. Right. So if you know anybody listened to the last episode, you were talking about how you brought the firearm to school. Um and that's that's that was news to me. It's the first time I've actually heard that aspect.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't told anybody that. Yeah. That's like when the when people on the podcast heard it, you're welcome. Everyone heard it. Like my parents didn't know about that, nobody.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know, I was thinking like how uh it's not like a bad thing or anything like that, but I've known you for so so long, right? And I found out that aspect about you via podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Like the suicidal aspect or just that particular story?
SPEAKER_03:That particular aspect where you brought the firearms school. Right. I knew I knew about the rest, but um I didn't know that you know you brought out the firearms, which is I don't know, I think it's interesting to kind of think about how the commitment that you have to this particular like format podcasting, whatever, like how it's kind of brought some things to light. Like, you know, you and I have had so so many conversations.
SPEAKER_00:Oh god, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Really in-depth conversations. I mean, you and I have pretty much we know everything about each other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we do. I mean, absolutely. So too much, too much. But yeah, I mean, you know, between the three of us, I mean you, me and Paul, I mean, we there's nobody who knows each other, you know, as much. Um it's a it's kind of a beautiful thing, really, to have a friendship that deep that's lasted so long.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I've never rarely taken that for granted, you know. Like I said, back in the day when I fell out, there were many reasons for that. Um I had that connection to music, and that was ultimately it. I mean, I felt I wasn't really connected to necessarily a lot of the people I was in that band with as much as I was connected to making music. Yeah. And as I've mentioned before, you know, drumming is the end all be all as far as my coping skills. So I had to really engage with that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then of course, once I came back into the fold later, um, you know, we were able to do that together. And of course, uh advice to all of you out there, don't be in a band with your friends. Really don't. I mean, uh like you and I are you and I, you know, just now starting to, you know, collaborate on music from afar. Um, but I think we don't have the ego behind it or, you know, we you know, it's about creating something together, not one-up in each other, which I definitely struggled with back in the day. You know, I had to, you know, we play simplistic songs and I'd be doing Virgil Donati polyrhythms over it just to show off. I mean, I could do it, but it was for the the it was vanity, you know.
SPEAKER_03:It was like trying trying to rein you in on like someone in the army, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. It was and I know I frustrated the the hell out of you guys with it. I look back and think that, you know, at the time I was like, man, these guys aren't keeping up. And I'm thinking, no. I mean, maybe like playing level, but like they knew what a band was. You guys knew what a band was. Yeah. Um, and that's the difference.
SPEAKER_03:So here's here's what I say about it. Um there was probably no chance that at that time we were ever gonna do well as a band, but I would I would never take it back. I some of my the best memories I have are the three of us up in that freaking little room just jamming.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, really, yeah, it they are good memories, they're great memories. Um, I regret some fallouts that happened from that. Yeah. That that that does taint it for me a little bit. Um, but yeah, those were great times. And I'm actually, I think we grew a lot from that as a unit too. Um and kind of realized priorities was a big thing. Yeah. Um, you know, like, oh, the band, you know, in the band, it was like, oh, the band is everything. So much to the point, hell, we asked Paul to leave the band.
SPEAKER_03:We did.
SPEAKER_00:And it was like, what a dumb decision that was. You just, I mean, what were we trying to do? Be the next whatever, like, come on. Yeah, no, I look back on that and I was like, we were fucking idiots. It just for that.
SPEAKER_03:It proved to me, though, how much more we valued our friendship at that time. And it's true.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it is true.
SPEAKER_03:I will I'll never, I'll never forget, like, you know, going back to Paul's house, like after we hadn't talked to him in months.
SPEAKER_00:It was six months or so, and we literally just showed up at his house.
SPEAKER_03:You're like, we can't do this anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we just drove him. You drove us over there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So kind of like knocked on his door. He came out though, and like it wasn't instant, but like it was almost like we had to fight initially not to allow that connection to come back because of that whole thing. It was like, oh, I want to hate you so bad, but like I love you so much. Kind of funny, really.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's it's crazy. Um, but you know, going back, I mean, we the three of us, uh you and like I said, you and Paul, you guys are we're friends forever. And then fourth grade, you and I became really close, and then through that, me, you and Paul. Um, and then me and Paul, I'll say when we were younger, like that age, we really connected pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then um, you know, I wasn't privy to all the things that were going on in your life at that time. We were still pretty new friends. Um Right. So some of your some of your oddities, right?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, I'm sure you had to get used to that. They weren't trying to understand it, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, it didn't bother me. I mean, I was always a weird kid, you know. It wasn't that, it was, you know, um, you were a very different person then than you are now. Oh yeah, yeah, right? Two almost two totally different people. Oh yeah, and yeah, and um, you know, like I said, me and Paul like really connected quickly, and then you just had a lot happen in your life. So at the very beginning of you and I, our our relationship, a lot happened in your life. And then a lot, yeah. You know, I know you like to tell the story, and you could I don't know if you told it on the podcast before.
SPEAKER_00:No, I just told it in that TikTok thing that's short, which went up 15 minutes long. You know what? I want you to tell it because you were the one who we can like chime in, or I can chime in to like tell the it's okay.
SPEAKER_03:So I again I wasn't like privy to all the things that you were going through, right? I think you at that time were starting to get some diagnoses, diagnoses on what was going on with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it would have been riding the whole time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I want to say I want to say it was like my third 12th or 13th birthday. Maybe it was my 13th birthday.
SPEAKER_00:I've ruined so many friends' birthdays with this shit. I'm not kidding.
SPEAKER_03:It was just you and Paul. Uh-huh. Um, or whatever for whatever reason you guys were over. Because you guys never came to my house. No one ever came to my house. But you and Paul were at my house. And um we I I used to live in my bait, my room was in the basement, right? And I had a whole basement to myself. It was kind of like a finished basement. Had the whole basement to myself. Really nice.
SPEAKER_00:It's a shame we didn't hang out there.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't have the video games and stuff. Like you, you and Paul, like you guys had work here and had it had it made over there, especially your house, man. That was like the place. And it's it, I don't know why it's just like that.
SPEAKER_00:Um, you know, dad always bought the expensive TVs and sound systems.
SPEAKER_03:Always watching our movies on that fucking line. Oh, yeah. You know,$18,000 sound system that your dad put in. He but he put the last one in last week, and then he just replaced it with this aid of the art. This is always the story.
SPEAKER_00:This is another compared to the last one. Watch how this fucking blows your hair back. Everybody else was like, I just think it's louder. I don't like no hear the frequencies. Yeah, yeah. Which is really funny because with my auto audio audible hallucinations, I don't hear fucking frequencies. I am not the one to go by for anything, which is why the whole idea of pursuing a sound tech and recording a degree was fucking insanity. Anyway, I'm sorry. I just wanted to know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so, anyways, you two were over at my house, we were down in the basement. I have always been this person that's like has to fuck with shit. So I had uh my mom's still pissed about this to this day. She had bought this trim. Um I forget what she was going to use it for, but she had this like really nice trim that had been sitting in her garage, so it seemed like forever. So I, you know, being the innovative person I was, um, I cut them down and I made three swords with them. And then I even they're like wooden swords.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then I used electrical tape and I like made the the grips for them, and then I used like um cardboard and I made sheaths. So, you know, went all out on it, and then you had like belt loops so you can connect to your belt. So anyways, we were you you had to be like the villain, right? Oh, it's yeah, hence the joker behind you, right? So you were the villain, and there's no there's no killing the villain. So me and Paul are like, you know, we're hitting you with the the swords, but you're like you were. Did I still this is my recall. This is my recall because this is what it was like trying to probably play because you didn't even need weapons, you were so strong, bro. And I will I'll say, I mean, my dad says this to this day. When you were in like fourth, fifth grade, you were shredded.
SPEAKER_00:I was in a really good shape. No, I was in a really good shape.
SPEAKER_03:You wore that black under armor shirt that day. Like I still remember you to this day, what you looked like.
SPEAKER_00:Um Yeah, things have changed.
SPEAKER_03:So, anyways, you were you were unbeatable, right? So we're we end up pushing you into the closet, right? And the closet was like I wasn't ready to come out yet.
SPEAKER_00:Not ready to come out of the closet yet.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you've thoroughly come out of the closet since then. Anyways, don't tell my wife. It's it's amazing you haven't made any gay jokes yet. Um, so the door was like a sliding door, okay? And so it was on a track, just like a barn door, like a sliding barn door, and then it had a a hole uh where the handle was, like went all the way through the door. So you were like, ah, like fecking like you're stuck, and I'm holding the door, and Paul gets the brilliant idea of using it as a glory hole, and I couldn't help myself.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Wrong sword.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, sorry. I that's not how I remember it.
SPEAKER_03:He sh shoves one of the swords into that hole, and he's just like and stabbed you with it. And these were points on them. I put points on them. Right, right in the balls, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right in the tendies, my tenders.
SPEAKER_03:You screamed, but you it was an angry scream, and me and Paul like looked at each other. And he was like, Oh fuck. So we took off running. We're running up the stairs, and we literally hear you kick the door off the tracks. You kick the door off the tracks, boom! And uh Paul took off running somewhere and he hid. And then I went into the laundry room, and it was like a really long laundry room. It was, yeah. Ton of dirty clothes in there. So, anyways, I buried myself under the dirty clothes, but I made sure to leave a little spot where I could see. And you're good. You were you found Paul, and then you're screaming, you're like, Where the fuck is he?
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna beat his fucking ass.
SPEAKER_03:And you're storming around, and you kept opening the laundry room, you're searching the whole house. You kept opening the laundry room and looking in, and then you leave, and then you walk in, you look in, and every time you'd like walk right up to me and be like, it's kind of like like a video game experience where that happens. You're hiding in like dad clubs in and just hide in the locker, you gotta hide in the locker while the fucking water.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that's kind of how it was. Anyways, um you came in once and I almost lost it, and then you walked out. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna get up. So I got up and I tried to run through the house, and uh you you heard me. So I go running outside, and you're like right on my tail. And I'm like, oh shit, he's gonna get me. So you're like, and there was a hoe in the front yard. My parents had like a gardening hoe in their front yard.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for the clarity. Yeah, you know. Well, bros before hoes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So um, you're you're running after me. And only thing I think to do is pick up this garden hoe and just like meet you at the level that you're at.
SPEAKER_02:So you were like genius, livid. You're like, listen here. And I grabbed the hoe and I was like, No, you listen here, and I slammed it into the ground. I'm like, I am tired of your shit. Well, it's funny instead of like smashing the hoe into the ground.
SPEAKER_00:It was a fucking Phano snap. I mean, it was instant. I mean, I instantly snapped out of it because honestly, from the time my balls got smashed to that point, I don't remember it. You and Paul just told the story 10,000 times. So like I can just recite it by memory, but like I don't, and I just remembered that like boom. You did that, and we were all laughing. We were all laughing. I don't know if I that was one of the hardest times I've ever laughed. It's just interesting how you matching my energy level because I didn't think you were actually as mad as me. No, I was unintentionally very goofy, and it worked. I mean, see, humor heals all, right? But it was brilliant. I mean, because honestly, I don't know what would have happened if I got a hold of you. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You were actually mad.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I was good. I wasn't, I wasn't here's the thing, I was not scared of you being mad. I knew you were actually mad, but it just seemed like the right thing to do to just like we're friends, like this is a goofy thing that just happened, you know. And I'm gonna I'm gonna add some for C.
SPEAKER_00:That's a really cool thing. I actually really appreciate that was your perspective because you know, I mean, I we talked about, you know, on the podcast how you know people who get blackout angry are actually pretty dangerous. Um, but they're you know, the means of de-escalation are so important, and you knew me well enough and my humor and all that shit, you you somehow had to know that was gonna de-escalate it. Yeah. And I was I've always looked back on that and literally thought that was the most genius thing you could have done.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But this is really cool.
SPEAKER_03:Even then, you know, like I still like I knew you, right? Right. But I didn't know what you were going through.
SPEAKER_00:Right. That is true. You really wouldn't have known.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that is true.
SPEAKER_03:You know, we're you know, very good friends at the time, but I still had I mean, I didn't have any clue what was actually going on with you. I knew that you were you had anger issues, right? Um and I think that was kind of at the beginning, if I if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but kind of at the beginning of when you started to become very symptomatic with your schizoaffective disorder.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:That was. So, you know, they were looking back, you can kind of point to things that are like, oh, that's probably why he was like this. But your kids, like, he's just fuck, we went out.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, dude. I wasn't even fucking aware of what was going on fully.
SPEAKER_03:You know, Gundam robots fighting kaiju and stuff in the front yard, you know. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So, I mean, yeah, I mean kids shouldn't be expected to pick up on that. Yeah, kids should not be expected to do that. And the fact that I even think about how you and Paul stuck around through all that time, except when I fucked off on my own accord. Yeah, but you guys stuck around that whole time, and even now, I mean, you guys are my most steadfast friends. I mean, you know as you know, and Paul knows. I mean, I've snapped at you both over things. Oh, yeah. And Paul.
SPEAKER_03:You and Paul Picker like a married couple, like an old married couple.
SPEAKER_00:It's yeah, we do. And you know what? We've had some serious disputes. Yeah, I've never wanted to kill Paul anybody as much as I'd want to kill him. But honest to God, I love him so much. Yeah. I do, and of course, you too, but Paul's a pretty misunderstood guy. He is, he really is, and you know, we don't have to talk a lot about him without him here, because I don't want to do that. But just know you're an amazing guy. We we love the death out of you.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so yeah, Paul, we love you. Um so kind of I guess there is a black hole in my knowledge about you, even after all this time. There really is like a black hole of knowledge between those or early years of knowing you, right? To uh wow, say what, sophomore year in high school. Yeah, when we probably uh we reconnected reconnected. So pretty much uh the entirety of uh middle school middle school. I say, okay, I would put on a timeline. We were friends fourth to fifth grade. Yeah, solidly and then from sixth. You you disappeared. I mean, there's no other way to put it. Like you you vanished. And yeah, I don't think uh Paul uh Paul probably knew, but it wasn't something that was ever like really, really discussed as far as you know, where did Nick go? You also started hanging, you know, you you you had another group of friends, and I think I just assumed that uh well he's better friends with them. Um which at the time probably was true.
SPEAKER_00:Well, maybe to a point. I mean, but again, it was connecting mostly through the music. Um of that friend group I won't name him. I was really close to, and I'm actually starting to reconnect with again, which is nice. Yeah, I won't name him.
SPEAKER_03:But uh the rest you know what's funny, just a uh uh sidebar here. Um he funny enough is the only reason that I ever picked up a guitar.
SPEAKER_00:I know.
SPEAKER_03:I know. Which is the most which is the wildest.
SPEAKER_00:If we if anybody knew the history's yeah, the history of you two and everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If you would honestly I parallel him and I, our lives, he was living a parallel life to what my life kind of could, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're right.
SPEAKER_03:And then he's the reason why I play guitar to this day.
SPEAKER_00:And he's he's also a another pretty tortured individual mentally. Um, we've been connecting over that. It's interesting since I've done this, you know, mental health, mental illness content. Yeah, it was weird is over the years I've kind of reached out to certain people um with not a lot of follow-up. Um, but then since I've done this, like he reached out or I reached out to him and like actually developing a rapport again. And then, of course, you know who else? Um, Guff. I'll just name drop him because he's probably gonna be on it too. Guff and I are like this now. I mean, it it's it's kind of that trauma bonding thing, which I'm not always a fan of that because I think that's probably not the best thing to form a relationship on and like that be your foundation. However, I have a history with both of them, and that helps a lot, at least in my mind, make it not be like a toxic kind of thing. I mean, I think you just have to watch that a little bit, but no, it's interesting that this is resonating with so many people.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I I'm really appreciative of that. Um, we're all we're almost up to 35,000 listeners.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, I just um I've listened to a couple of your episodes now, but you really you messaged me and you're like, hey, I really want you to listen to this this episode. And I did. Yeah, you and Paul Both. I did. Yeah. And um, you know, talking about you specifically, um there are like things that occurred in your life, right? That have occurred in your life that are pretty that would be difficult for any normal person, right? For anyone to to cope with and deal with. I mean, and uh it was it was an in a pretty small amount of time, right? You had like these traumatic, like traumatic events, um, things that were were happening to you, ways that you were feeling that you had to cope with and try to overcome and stuff like that. Um and then, you know, um you've been we you and I reconnected in in high school. Um like I said, about freshman or sophomore, uh sophomores in high school. Yeah, that me by Paul. Paul came, I mean he literally came up to me one day and he was like, Hey, I start talking to Nick again, and he wants us to come over and hang out. And I was like, I would love to. And that was like one of the best decisions I ever made.
SPEAKER_00:Because absolutely, because it was like we had never we it was incredible the instant connection we had back. And I gotta tell you, I don't know if I ever told you this. I probably have who the hell knows anymore. But I was so nervous to reach out to you and Paul again because I really felt like I'd fucked you two over so bad. Yeah. And it was so amazing. I don't know what you guys talked about behind the scenes about it, and didn't really matter now, but I mean, I was really angry. Because I gotta tell you, before I contacted Paul, which was kind of out of the blue, honestly, I had I kind of gone away from that other friend group for like a year. There was a year I was alone. Yeah. I didn't I didn't hang out with friends, I didn't hang out with anybody, and I don't know what the hell even made me go ahead and do it. I mean, I was in therapy, doing meds, um, all that shit. So maybe my therapist encouraged it. Or definitely my parents were trying to get me in contact with you and Paul again. That was a big thing. Yeah. They were really pushing it. And God, I I don't know if this is true. I almost feel like maybe dad reached out. I don't think so, though. God, I don't remember. I mean, all the there's so much bullshit that happened in the past. I can't keep it all tracked. I mean, yeah, but I have to say, like, there was there was literally a year where I was alone, like I didn't know what to do with myself and all that. And you know, I was so nervous to reach out to you and Paul. And I was so glad to see, like, I invited you guys over and you were like there probably that weekend, or like, yeah. There was no like, well, let me pick up my schedule. You know, it was like it was almost like you couldn't wait.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was it was great to like hear from you and and think like, you know, I wanted to see how you're doing. I didn't know that we were gonna just immediately reconnect the way we did. It was crazy. But it was, it was like instant. Yeah. Um and then that is really when I started, you know, I kind of knew a little a few things that Paul had told me over the the years. Right. Um, but really until that moment, um I was pretty much oblivious to all of what you had gone through in that time. You know, and it's weird listening to that podcast episode because it's like filling in that that void. I already know most of the the stories, but right you you were telling a little more in sequence, right? A more a totality of what had occurred, opposed to hey, this is what happened to me, or this is what happened, or this is how it felt, or this is what I did. More sporadically, yeah. So you really like it put it in perspective for me. Um and then um it even then it's hard to appre, you know, when we're reconnect, we're we're best friends. I mean, we were fucked dude, we were spending every day together in high school.
SPEAKER_00:I was yeah, I mean it was like and then all the time, yeah. I wasn't even going to high school with you guys at that point, but I remember you guys would pick me up a lot or just come over after school and like it was a lot, and it was great.
SPEAKER_03:And there's so much about myself that has been shaped from that moment forward because I don't know if it's because of the things you were doing to try to cope with your um you know, your mental illness and stuff like that, but movies, for instance, dude. I'm a huge movie fan. Everyone that knows me knows me, that knows that I'm like a movie nerd, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love I love Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and all these like this nerdy stuff. Play music and I do all this stuff, and that's all stems from from you, right? Because of the time and how we spent time together. Yeah, you know, we didn't we didn't go out and party and stuff like that. It was me, you and Paul. It was it was me, you and Paul hanging out at your house, fucking watching movies, playing, playing music, or being in the kitchen, just fucking chit-chatting, going to steak and shake, and you know, it was like all these is like memories of the three of us just some of the there's so fond memories.
SPEAKER_00:Like there's so many, it's just a memorable time period of just joy, the three of us. And you know, as you get older, you know, one thing I've struggled with, I don't know about you and Paul as much. Maybe it's just me. And if it's not, if it is or not, it's fine. But like it's been hard to the distance for me. Um and kind of talking like to my you know, Katie about it, my wife, is that I guess I found kind of through talking to her that I'm somebody who needs a lot of people I'd say can do just fine with three to five core connections. You know, like they can have three to five people in their life that they're just the boom. I mean, there's a you know, real core connection. And I found that I need more than that. Um, it's not that everybody has to be that core connection, but I need depth to my connections. And I've kind of found that out. I've kind of, I guess, labeled it or discovered it as knowing what it is very recently. And I I don't really know why that is. Um, but it's like reconnecting with Guff or the other, you know, guy we were just talking about, or, you know, I reconnected with Alexis Esteb, you know, because she's doing the AI, um, she's doing like consciousness, consciousness through AI. I mean, she's she's you know how brilliant she is, and she's gonna be on the podcast. And like it's really and I I was never close to her, you know what I mean? But like, again, connecting through this medium has been amazing. And I find myself, even when we go to restaurants and stuff, like the waitress will talk about like, I don't know, like her kids, and like we were at Cracker Brother, and one of the waitresses was mentioning how um she's really sensitive to sound and how when her toddler was young, you know, he would make loud noises being a toddler and it would like trigger her a panic attack and shit. I found myself digging into that with her, which by the way, she was very comfortable. I guess I have that comfort with it, you know, because I'm so open about mine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But like it's it's amazing. But it's that it's weird that I feel the drive to do that. Yeah. Um it is weird. I don't really know why.
SPEAKER_03:Because you're you're a very empathetic person.
SPEAKER_00:Probably to a fault. Probably to a fault.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I don't think I don't think you can be empathetic to a fault. Um I think that you are just a genuine, very genuine person. And uh kind of what I was um kind of what I was gonna say earlier was that you know, in all those you know, after we reconnected and I knew everything about you, right? Um I knew about your suicide attempts, I knew about your grandmother. Um it's uh you you carry yourself in such a way that like no one's gonna know. Right? Even as your closest friend, it is hard to really know. Okay. I do I do have a point with with this. It's hard to know what it's like, what you were going through. Right. I you can tell me it, I can sympathize with you, right? I love you. Um it's very difficult to know like what that feels like. And the you as you know, um the closest that I came to having uh any idea what that's like is was was last year, right? Last year was the hardest year of my life. Absolutely. Um and there I think that is an additional context that I have and listening to those stories again um that kinda made me want to like immediately talk to you. Right. Um because of how hard how hard last year was on me. And how it still is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I know, it's it's lingered a lot, and why wouldn't it like how couldn't it be?
SPEAKER_03:So kind of having like some of the things that you you you said about as far as how you're feeling. You know, I'm I'm not I want to say like I'm passively suicidal or anything like that. That that's not the case, but there's some like things that you said that resonated with me. I was like, wow to feel like you know any s to feel that in any sort of way is um right and to imagine that amplified has gotta be so difficult. Right. And during this black hole in our relationship, right, where I I didn't really know what was going on with you, you were going through all that amplified, turned up. And uh it broke my heart a little bit, I'm not gonna lie, man. Like it really I guess I don't want to I wanted to talk to you immediately. Just want to call you and just talk to you because how do you know just how important you are to me. So I got anybody. Yeah. And we've also had very we always have honest conversations, and we always end up going like real deep in the weeds about how we're feeling about stuff. But um, like I know that one because I just for clarification, I live in Florida. You and Paul still live in Indiana. So that makes it difficult, right? I only get to see you guys. You know, I only get to see you guys. Hopefully see you guys. Yeah. I'm hopefully more. Um that has something to do with like how bad my ear was last year, but right, right. Um it's getting better. I'm on the I'm on the upside, the downside. No, you want to be going uphill. You want to go to go up? You want to go uphill because everyone wants to be at the top. It's all uphill from here. No, it's easier going downhill than it's uphill.
SPEAKER_00:Dad didn't know what the fuck he was talking about.
SPEAKER_03:Dad didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. Um, I forget what was I just saying. Anyways, um you know that that makes it difficult being able to see each other and connect and stuff like that. But the last time I was up there, um we were having a conversation and I was kind of like emphasizing to you how important you are. And you were like, doesn't matter. It it's not that it doesn't matter, but how you feel, it doesn't change how you feel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it doesn't change. It matters that you feel that way, but it doesn't change how I feel, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and right here on the podcast, Tony's preaching the same thing. Yeah. Um, and I I'm just not to a point where I can see it yet.
SPEAKER_03:And I'll be honest, when we were having that conversation, I totally understood. I I don't know how else to say it. There was a part of me that was like, there's like I know there's not anything I'm gonna be able to tell you. So I'm just gonna sit here and we're gonna enjoy this moment.
SPEAKER_00:I agree, guys. I think sometimes that is what you do. You know, you can't you can't change people's minds all the time or convince them of anything, but you can at least let them know you give a shit, you know. Yeah, I think there's there's a lot to that. If nothing else, you can at least let people know you care. Um and then be there. And be there. I mean that's you never yeah, and you never know when somebody's gonna implode. You have no clue.
SPEAKER_03:Kind of bringing it full circle, you know, like that story of you being upset with me and everything. Like, it wasn't that I told you to calm down, it wasn't that you know, we're oh hold on. Okay, it's not that I told you to to calm down or anything like that. I didn't do any kind of like breathing techniques. I just was I was just in the moment with you, just being there with you. I was and uh you know, I I'm not saying that's a that's a cure all or anything like that, but you know, when we were having that conversation in the car, I was driving you home. And uh you know, kind of realizing like I'm not gonna change his mind right here. Like he's he feels how he feels, and it's okay. It's it's validated, like the way you feel is validated. I don't want to say it's okay, but it you know, it's no that's that's a great word for it.
SPEAKER_00:That's an awesome word for it.
SPEAKER_03:And uh I just I kinda understood to a degree in that moment, and I thought we're just gonna talk about something else. We're just gonna spend this time together. And you know, like always, we just had a really deep conversation and I enjoyed your company.
SPEAKER_00:Um Yeah, and that's that's the thing is you know, you know, it's like even when you know Paul was over here, what, two or three weeks time has no meaning since a child. But you know, he was over here the weekend, one of the weekends in the recent past. And uh, you know, him and I were playing games and like we fucking we were like, oh, we gotta call Ryan. Like we were planning on it. Like, we gotta call him this evening if he's available. We freaking call you. We talked on we talk on the phone for what, 15, 20 minutes? Then you hang up and just FaceTime us. Yeah. And like we literally pointed the fucking phone at the TV while we were playing what were we playing? Rainbow Six Vegas. Rainbow Six Vegas 2. Oh, yeah. I've never sucked, well, yeah, I have. I was terrible, and you were just cackling your ass off while you were putting in your hours at work.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm at working.
SPEAKER_00:You're so pissed at me in a fun way, maybe. Because I'm just terrible at anything that has to do with first person shooting. I mean, Call of Duty, man, I suck at it, but remember when the back in the day we played Modern Warfare and Modern Warfare 2 locally, and you guys would just annihilate me. I don't want to used to get pissed. You guys would be laughing your asses off. You go, you guys would often team up just to kick my ass even more.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm better what was better than that was when you'd be like, hey guys, I got this new game, and I'm actually pretty good at it. And then you would proceed to beat us for all two rounds, and then we just we figure out the buttons and we just obliterate.
SPEAKER_00:It still happens. I mean it's so funny. I like I get a new game and I practice up for a couple hours. I'm like, I got them this fight. I got these. And you guys, I mean, like a lot of fighting games, like you play two or three rounds with me, and the first round I annihilate you, and it slowly gets where you guys edge and edge more, and then finally I can't win one fucking match with you. It drives me up a wall. And you'll find this funny. You know, Guff was over here again week a weekend recently. We were playing Mortal Kombat, he's spamming buttons. Hate button spammers of Mortal Kombat. I couldn't fucking beat him. Uh-huh. How do you beat button spammers?
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, he never played the game before. I can absolutely see him going like doing his heels.
SPEAKER_00:Oh it was hilarious. And he was having the time of his life. I'm like, I was not. I was pissed. Because I literally told him before we put the game on. I was like, dude, I gotta be honest, you're not gonna I know you don't like losing games, guff. I know you like after two losses, you turn the fucking thing off. I was like, this is gonna be, I mean, it's gonna be instant. Yeah. The fucker beat me in like 10 rounds, and I was the one who was like, all right, we're I pulled, I pulled it up. Oh man. But yeah, that's the kind of dynamic, and it's special. Um and that's what I've always loved about, especially the three of us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, what's interesting is about sharing on that, especially the suicide episode. I mean, that's the one where I got really personal. Um what I didn't realize is how much of that I never hadn't shared. You know, as you know, I'm not somebody to hide stuff. I don't, I don't like think in my mind, all right, I'm gonna withdraw this detail. Um, I've been going back to therapy for the past six months and uncovering some of that again. And it's like, you know, the podcast and my TikTok content, even the drumming essentially is all about genuine. And you know, I'm a painfully honest person. Yeah. I don't like anything fake in any aspect. If you're fake with me, I don't care. I don't want to, I don't want that. Be honest with me. And one thing about the podcast is that there's shit that has come out in episodes that I'm like, you know, like my parents watch watch them all. Um, and I was like, I I didn't know about that. I'm like, oh you I swear I would have told you. And they're like, no, I I wouldn't remember that. Like, you know, it's like, damn, I is it, you know, uh, but I'm actually glad it works that way. Um, because I think it just shows there's no is a you can tell exactly what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think that it is easier in some ways to talk about it in this format?
SPEAKER_00:Well, okay. I will say that I would say, you know, to talk to people I don't know. Um, I have no qualms about talking to anybody I know about anything I've shared in the episodes. Sure. Um, honestly, God, I don't. Um, but yeah, I you know, it depends on like could I do like a like a speak at a I don't know, uh event or something about it. Yeah. I don't know. I think maybe I've developed that over the years. Because I don't know if you remember. I mean, back well, you may not, but back when I was like when I just got out of inpatient and was starting to recover and everything, I was actually um my dad knew one of the higher-ups in NAMI, um, which is one of the biggest, you know, mental illness kind of non-for-profits out there. And um, he knew one of the higher-ups, and she was really trying to get me to speak at events and things, and I was not ready to do it. It wasn't that I was shy. I love fucking public speaking. I love the attention. I love being a dumbass or helping people in front of it, you know, and uh, but I was not ready at that point. And I mean, this is how I've done it. Um, but would I be willing to speak at Nami or like some big thing? Yeah, I mean, this is about outreach. It's about changing the stigma. But you kind of mentioned that, you know, like you said, you're not gonna change my mind about things and likewise. Here's the thing that honestly just came to me when you said that is that I'm not so sure this podcast is about necessarily for those of us who are suffering, changing their minds about things. Maybe it is more about validation. Validation is a powerful thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because again, you guys, I have so many people who love me that have really attempted to change what I think about myself or all that stuff. But I have to say, it's more important to feel validated because you're not going to change it. But the validation is really important.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know. I mean, I love the idea of it changing people's perspectives that have no clue what any of this is or what it's like to go through it. But for those people stuck in it, maybe it's just more important to know that right out in the open, I'm just like vomiting at you exactly what's going on. And maybe that, if nothing else, can validate, you know. Yeah. I think there's a lot of importance to that. Um, I gotta say one thing that irritates the hell out of me, and this is a bit of a tangent, but not not exactly. I I mean, you're on, you know, take well, you're mainly an Insta guy. But there's a lot of creators that are putting out like, this is what it's like to have schizophrenia. This is what it's like to have this and that and the other, like mental illness-wise. Most of the time, these people don't have that illness. Um, so it's a very, you know, generic. Huh.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, fuck them.
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh, fair enough. I I kind of appreciate in a way what they're doing because they're trying to like, this is what it's like. What bothers me about it though is that I mean, I can say with schizophrenia, schizoaffective most severe mental illnesses is that it's different for all of us.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So to just put out there like this is what it's like, it's like and you're not somebody who has it. Right. Like there are content creators that are mentally ill to put this is what it's like for me.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I like that. I love that.
SPEAKER_03:So as you know, I have I have tried to kind of understand what it is like for you. Right. So I want to you know have a bachelor's in fine art. Right. Um, I created some artwork that kind of emulated like some of the things you've told me, right? Try to like put it on paper. Like what recently or in the past. In the past.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, some of your artwork is yeah, by the way, podcast listeners, the creator of our artwork of our podcast cover right here. Yeah, but a bunch of other ones.
SPEAKER_03:What's funny is those photos that I took that you used for your your artwork years ago. Specifically um, me trying to understand or like visualize what it is you were going through. Because you you tell me and Paul exactly what you know it looked like or felt like or seemed like. And we would mean I mean that like Ken, we've always been so honest with each other. Me and Paul just asked you point blake, like, what are you seeing right now? Oh, I'm hearing right now. And I yeah, you'd be like, uh, you know, there's two guys over here and they're fighting, their faces don't, you know, whatever, and it's really bloody and stuff like that. I just ignore it. So, you know, we got those.
SPEAKER_00:Did I tell you that? Did I tell you that Katie's the one who told me how to describe those as Mortal Kombat fatalities?
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she's like, because she watches me play a lot and she she laughs at that shit. I mean, Mortal Kombat's so obnoxious. Yeah, but like she is that kind of what I said, oh my god, that's fucking it. So ever since then, I described them. Think of your pilot, pale white, faceless men, just Mortal Kombat fatalities. And it does put it, it's like people know that. Yeah, but yeah, I'm sorry. I had to inter I had to put that in there because like I thought that was so brilliant.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but as you know now, I'm in law enforcement. Big change. Um and it's a job well suited to me. Uh absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Paul was thrilled when you said you were going to the academy. Paul and I both were.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I've been a little concerned for the safety aspect, of course. Yeah. But like we were like, oh my God. I don't even know what. That never occurred to us that that would be a thing for you. Yeah. But like when you mentioned that, it was like Paul and I were both like, okay, that's perfect. Like, why? I don't know. But we felt it. Obviously, you did too.
SPEAKER_03:Uh now that I'm in a relationship with a cop, I can speak to how structured you're. We're living together, so.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I mean they did out you on social media.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, on YouTube, yes. That was my own co-worker.
SPEAKER_00:I was dying.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god. I was dying. My own co-worker. And have like a hundred some thousand views or some shit. Yeah. But anyways, what I'm getting at is, you know, you two are always together.
SPEAKER_00:Should we be concerned or something?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I don't want to get in the way of romance. Like remember, our entire job is recorded all the time. Anyways, um, so I, you know, I I spend a lot of my time as an artist trying to understand what it's like in your world. And then I now am in a profession where I deal with people with mental illness on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_00:I was hoping we get into this.
SPEAKER_03:It's so I would say that most of the people that I deal with have some kind of mental illness. I mean, genuinely. Um probably. Yeah. Because you gotta remember, like your job, you're not dealing with people on their best days. You're dealing with people on bad days. And some people have a bad day, yeah, they they have a bad day pretty much every day. So, you know, put it putting it into perspective of what it's like for someone who is schizophrenic to the point where they're homeless, they're unmedicated, um, they are drug users, alcoholics. Right. Um, we're talking schizophrenic. Uh schizoaffective disorder.
SPEAKER_00:I it plays into that.
SPEAKER_03:It's typically put together. Um but um, or at least like in the context of understanding. Like typically people are just like schizophrenic uh schizophrenia Oh schizophrenic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's what they're labeled as. Like schizo nobody knows what the fuck schizoaffective is. It got to a point where when I would describe my illness, I'd say, I'm schizophrenic, but with bipolar tendencies. I didn't even say so. Yeah, I get totally what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03:Anyways, um, I understand the distinction because I know you and your schizoaffective dis have this schizoffective disorder. But anyways, um that's not really relevant. Dealing with people who have some kind of very d debilitating mental illness like that, um, it is a totally different perspective on you, like how I view you. And Tony actually mentioned this in your podcast, like you are such a unique case, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Unique New York. But you are sorry to say I don't object the humor. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Um you are because uh you unless you know you and you know that you are symptomatic, right? You're not gonna know. Um it really requires that uh personal knowledge of you to understand like what you go through. Whereas other people, you can tell when I'm at work, I can tell almost instantly if someone is um experiencing some kind of mental health episode. Yeah, they're having or they are diagnosed with something. You can usually tell. Um and that's speaks to just how I don't know what it is with you. I don't know what clicked with you. I don't know what um what the trick is.
SPEAKER_00:I wish honestly God I had the answer. Because like Tony, I I don't know if we talked about it on the podcast, or just together we talked about a shit ton, is like kind of tracing back what has helped me be so successful in managing it. And I can't trace it. But I don't know that that necessarily is you know the total answer. I mean, there's studies that show drumming absolutely can repair and build neuropathways um better than any instrument, actually. Um there's a guy at IU locally that is actually doing research specifically on instruments and their healing powers and mental illness. I want to get a hold of him. Um Tony knows of him, um, but we need we really talk about getting a hold of him and like I'll be your fucking guinea pig if you need it. Like, I don't know. But but yeah, I I honestly, I mean, I know I've I've done something, but it kind of pisses me the fuck off that I don't know what. I mean, I had a lot going for me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was gonna say you you you have maybe you have as much as more than more than most, I guess I'll say. I think I do as far as I don't all of the ingredients, you know, sugar, spice and everything nice, right? Yeah. Uh to kind of keep keep you like asymptomatic or you know, help you manage your your illness. So I mean music, you you found something, you found like a passion, you found like a calling, right? Um I'm sure there is something to specifically music and drumming and stuff like that, because there is just something so cathartic about playing music. I mean Oh god, yes, listening alone, but I I'll I'll tell you, like I've it's hard not when I'm talking to you, it's hard not to um feel like things that I experience are um you know that they're not petty or something like that, right? And we've had this conversation before.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, because you yeah, I was just about ready to ring me about it. And I think I've done that on the podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Um no, but we you you did with Tony, and then there I see both sides of it, right? Because every individual's experience, and I've made this, you can make this argument about anything, right? Like, oh I'm so you know, I'm hungry today or whatever, um, I'm cold today. Well, there's people that are you know starving in Africa, right? You always hear that. But like it isn't the reality is is that everyone's individual experiences like you know, their own struggles are are significant, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like To them, yeah, to them, yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Like last year was very, very rough for me, and there's a lot of good that happened to me last year, too.
SPEAKER_00:So like one of the best things, if not the best.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So like parts of me, it's kind of like, you know, there's people have it worse than me. Absolutely. But it's like I it's still devastating. It's still like so hard to get through it. Right. So you know, it's like it could sure it could be worse, but holy shit. Um yeah, but um you know I'm glad you said that. Yeah, so I get I get both sides of it. But um when I was in high school, you know, uh, I'll say like I really had my ups and downs. Right. I think everyone, you know, high school is uh being a teenager so fucking hard. I don't care what anybody says. Being a teenager sucks. I hate teenagers. I have to get annoying when I have to deal with teenagers at work. I want to beat the sh out of it. I want to give them discipline that they never had before, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they're still yeah, that's fair.
SPEAKER_03:They're so hard to deal with, but at the same time, there's no harder time in a person's life than being a teenager, genuinely. Always keep that in mind. Yeah. Um, but um, you know, what I will I will say, what I would always do, and I still have this, this guitar is still sitting next to me. It's the first guitar I ever had. Acoustic guitar. Um when I would have really bad days, I'd be sitting up, I'd be like sitting awake at at night, just fucking feeling depressed, right? Just fucking hating life and dealing with all your hormonal things. I would sit there on my bed hugging my guitar, and I would just strum the E chord. That's really and just let that like boom and just let it. Vibrate. I kid you not, it was the best thing. I did it all the time. It was it was the way that I would get my mind to just power down. Just listening to like the sound of that guitar. And it's not me jamming, I'm not doing anything, I'm just because it's a big it's a big bodied acoustic, so you can really like feel the vibrations on it. I would do that all the time. You know, so I think there really is something to music specifically that there is something powerful to like helping you deal with things mentally. But yeah, that might be that might be it for us, you and you and I. However, there might be other people where other aspects of life fishing, I don't know, you go out fishing, and that's exactly what's the whole genesis of this idea, this podcast idea.
SPEAKER_00:Was that creativity or just something whatever that is to you? You know, you know, artwork, uh drawing, painting, reading, something that you find a joy in that you can absolutely lose yourself and almost reach a different, whatever you want to call it, a different dimension, a different plane, a different wavelength, where everything in this world leaves and it's just you and whatever you're doing. That is, to me, the ultimate therapy that all of us have the power to reach. Um, you have to find it, and then you have to find how to use it or apply it that way. Um, but we all fucking have that. We all have that ability. Um and what's interesting is like let's say before you start playing guitar, what I mean, music's always been a thing to you, right? I mean, as far as I back as I remember.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so I started, I picked up my I will never forget this. The guy that we were talking about earlier, right? Uh-huh. He was playing guitar in I forget her name. It was a uh literature teacher. Her huh? Thompson's class. Thompson, yeah. She had the back door that went to the cafeteria. Uh-huh. Anyways, um, I got to use that door. She would let me. So I got on the list.
SPEAKER_00:I remember you getting that privilege. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I got the freaking lunch door access.
SPEAKER_00:Got to get in the line first.
SPEAKER_03:Everyone had to go out and all the way around to just go through there. Um, I remember that. So, anyways, we were it was like like a break, and he had his guitar there and he was playing guitar, and I was like, dang man, that's pretty cool. Like, I don't think I could ever do that. And he goes, you know what? That's so stupid. You know, like don't say you can't do it. If you if you want to play guitar, you can play guitar, you just gotta pick it up. And I don't know why that resonated with me. I literally went home. My mom had bought my dad this acoustic guitar years ago. My dad's a very good singer and he loves country, so she got it for him. He never picked it up, didn't know how to tune a guitar. I picked that thing up, pulled it out of the closet, pulled it out of the case, sat on the back patio, and just messed around with it. Came up with a song. It was just like some boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, bro, right.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and then at that same time, um, another kid that I grew up with, uh who was I was very close with, um, kind of filled the void when you were gone.
SPEAKER_00:Um okay, yeah, I think I know what you're talking about then.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so he lived right down the road. We basically lived at each other's house. He is the polar opposite of me. Just a just a asshole and a fucking nightmare to deal with, but he was the only kid in my neighborhood, and I I loved him to death. Um he started playing guitar. Like we started taking lessons right at the same time. I don't know why. We were unrelated. Um, but we started playing guitar, and uh he came over to my house, he showed me how to tune a guitar, he was playing electric. I saw the acoustic is still my go-to. Yep, absolutely. And he showed me how to tune a guitar, tune the guitar, and uh the rest is history, man. Like it just stuck with me. Um but yeah, so since then I was 15, 15 years old. Since I picked up that guitar, I've not really put down a guitar. No, and I mean I'm not great either. I'm I'm I'm better a songwriter than I am a guitar.
SPEAKER_00:You're a good songwriter, and you know what, you your guitar caters to your your songwriting so well. So there is something to the art of being able to combine both, no matter what your level of playing the instrument is. Um, I don't know if you listen to the episode we did with Trevor. Yeah, I highly recommend that one because he is literally the one of the best writers I've ever heard. He's poetic. Um I literally put him like with Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, those insane guys. Um Sympathy for the typewriter. I don't know if you're I think I'm I don't know if I've shared him with you like through socials, but subscribe to that motherfucker because he's brilliant. Um but he'll tell you he's not really a great guitar player, but he can play to his lyrics and to his music what he wants to play. And that's what matters. Um, you know, Bob Dylan is not a stellar guitar player. Um, you know, but again, his lyrics are some of the best. So there's something to just if you can one thing I always loved is that there's a drummer by the name of, I think it was Tommy Igo said this. And it's that somebody asked him what the ideal technique was for drumming. Like, what's the ideal hand technique? Like what's what's right. He said, as long as you can play what's in your head, and you don't injure yourself, as long as you can play what's in your head, who cares what your technique is?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:As long as you can put, you can get out of the instrument what you want to get out of it, it doesn't matter what your technique is.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But then let's say you want to play some of the insanity that some of these guys are doing, you're going to have to develop the technique to do it. You can't wing that shit. And I'd say guitar is not far off that. Um same with golf. I you have to play to your skill level. Yeah, I mean, you know, do you want to be if you want to be tiger?
SPEAKER_03:If you want to go out and you wanna you want to have fun, play golf, and have like a decent score, you gotta play to your skill level, which I don't like. If you want to be tiger woods, you need to start like when you were five years old. Right. Right. But yeah, I mean, um I get what I need and what I want from guitar. Um if I really need to if I really need to nail something or learn something that is difficult, I can. Um, I have in the past, but it's hard for me. You know, it's something that requires a lot of time, effort, and practice. Um, some people they they really it's it's natural. And there's songs that I've tried to play that I cannot play and I never will be able to play, and I'm it's okay. But um as far as mean able to you know come with a melody, put uh guitar parts together, rhythms together, and stuff like that. I I do okay. I think I do pretty good. Um but I'm also thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's funny because looking forward to putting drums to it. I really am.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm very excited because I have several several songs.
SPEAKER_00:It's been tough to get behind the behind the kit because of you know, baby, but yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_03:It's funny because we had we were talking about how seriously we took the how seriously we took the band back in the day. Yeah, yeah. And it destroyed us. Like we, you know, we were we were all at different skill levels, and we each wanted the other to be better.
SPEAKER_00:Something they weren't, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Instead of just being like, here's what we can do, this is what we are good at, and sticking to we we we also were a cover band, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that was the other thing, is that that's where I was totally off base. You you and Paul and Guff were really good about learning the songs and playing the songs, as you do in a cover band. Um one thing that's been my downfall, and even when I taught, you know, lessons at the location I did, I've never name-dropped them just because of all the shit that went down there. But um, even when I taught there, I rarely taught the kids the actual parts. But the reason why is to get them hooked on the instrument. Yeah. Um it worked. Um, and then kids who were like, okay, I want to take this seriously, then I would teach them the parts. But what's interesting is that you, you, Paul, and Guff knew what the parts were and you knew to play them. I look back and I'm like, did I fuck up half of our songs? And I'm like, I'm not so sure I didn't. Because God, I remember trying to add elements that just did not fit. Because I was, as you know, I was obsessed with Virgil Denani, Vinny Calliuda, and Dave Weckle that I still in. But I wanted to emulate them in everything I did.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And, you know, it wasn't actually until college when I was in Jazz Band with Rob Dixon, you know, one of the biggest jazz names in the mid Midwest. Um, you know, he he heads the jazz festival here. And, you know, he was my teacher. And I remember we were playing like a swing, a classic swing song, jazz standard. And I was playing like weckle shit over it. And he literally stops the whole band, and he says, Nick, and he he totally fooled me with this. He's like, Oh my god. So good. So I don't ever do that again. I mean, it was like a and this, you know. I mean, I was blindsided by it because he was like, oh, that's I mean, he fooled me with it. So good. Oh my God, don't ever do it again. And I I thought he was kidding at first. Yeah, I know. He's like, no, I'm I'm dead serious. He said, You play to the music. You're not showboating here. You are not, you're not the star of the of this band. You will get your solo later. You know, and that's again kind of goes back to, you know, when you're up and coming as a as a as an instrument, you know, playing a as a musician, there is something about having to prove yourself. There is And there there is a point like you just don't give a shit about that anymore. Because I mean, like with the drum covers I'm putting out there, um, they are not perfect covers. There's nothing perfect about them. Are they objects is it objectively really good playing? Yeah, sure. But my big thing, kind of with the podcast and everything I do, is genuine. There's no editing, there's no I mean, I turn on the camera, I record one take, and I'm done. That's the whole point. Just to show the enjoyment and the pleasure and the and the uh elation you get from playing. Yeah. Um, could could I learn, like you said, could I learn probably about anything out there? Yeah, I probably, it might take me however long. But that's not what I want out of the instrument.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I've put 25 years into learning technique and and I can whip it out when I need to.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's but I don't, I'm not doing that to show off.
SPEAKER_03:It's so funny how as we've gotten older, our perspectives have changed. I'm gonna be 33, you're gonna be 33 this year. And um our like our perspectives have changed so dramatically as far as like what we are expecting of ourselves. Oh yeah, it's gone from what you're saying, like, ah, you gotta you gotta prove yourself. And I know this is especially true of you, especially true of Paul. Paul was very both, yeah. Um, there's a reason we kicked him out of the band. I love him to death. There's a reason we kicked him out of the band because he was hard to deal with. I mean, genuinely he was hard to deal with because um I he was lead guitarist, I was rhythm guitarist and vocals. Um he's a better probably not now, because I don't know the last time he's picked up a guitar. I would love for him to pick up a guitar again, but I wish he would.
SPEAKER_00:I really wish he would.
SPEAKER_03:He was very committed to it. I think he had a lot of guys.
SPEAKER_00:He's doing practice a lot.
SPEAKER_03:I think he had a lot of pride.
SPEAKER_00:Pride in his playing. Yes, and um you know Paul had crazy chops. What he struggled with was timing.
SPEAKER_03:It's timing.
SPEAKER_00:And but he would not play to a metronome to work on it. So it again, it's choosing what to work on. But go ahead, what were you gonna say?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so you know, um, that was something that we always kind of fought over because I understood the rhythm and the phrasing of the music better. He could play guitar better than me, but like I understood it better, I guess. Uh lithium's a great one. Like he he never was able to get the the rhythm for lithium.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:I had to learn how to play lithium and sing it at the same time. Um, you know, it's it's funny how much tension there was because of that.
SPEAKER_00:And in the music or just between probably between all of us, right?
SPEAKER_03:Between all of us, right? That existed. And and then there was tension between me and Guff because he was he was so I mean, if there was a gradient, it was you, you were you know, primo, like the best in the band as far as skill level and your instrument. Um and then Guff is somehow very good very quickly at bass guitar, but yeah, he was also very, very serious about it to the point where it it yeah, it was hard. It was hard to um it was adding hard to enjoy and adding additional pressure and stress to those situations where you know I'm trying to sing and play guitar, I'm not really comfortable singing at that time, you know, and we were weren't playing easy songs, so I'm having to like really we're developing two skills, yeah, at the same time same simultaneously, right?
SPEAKER_00:So and you're kind of a novice at both at that point, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so um I'm trying to sing and play, and then trying to keep in mind what what where we're at in the song, getting stressed. I don't know if I fuck up the lyrics, Guff's gonna yell at me. He's gonna stop the whole band instead of just letting us go through.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was the thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and then you know, we we were a mess. But it was all, it wasn't here's the thing now. If we were to be that that same, those same people, or if we were if we were to do that now, the four of us, the way we are, we would do it. Right? You wouldn't play like a fucking you wouldn't play like a fucking maniac, guff wouldn't be getting upset every single time, Paul wouldn't be getting so uh having so much ego that he needs to make sure that like I'm not outshining him or what he thinks is me outshining him in some way on guitar. We would fit into our roles the way that we need to fit into our roles, and we would we would, you know, we would we would probably be able to do it because all the ego would be brought down and leveled out, and we hey, we know what it is.
SPEAKER_00:There would be no ego, it'd be about contributing to the music.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And honestly, I'd love for kind of the four of us to do that again. I mean, I don't know how possible that is, but yeah, I mean I know you used some of your stuff, and Guff would really be interested in you know doing that. I mean he he picked up the bass again recently. I mean and he you know it's he's another one that you know really there's so much catharsis through his music. Yeah. Um and I I feel like Paul's lost out on that. And I wish he could get that back. You know what's he'd actually really help him.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So you know what's interesting is I've had I've had these um rifts and stuff. I dude, I got years and years of bits and pieces of music that I've recorded over the years, right? None of us none none of it has ever come together. Ever. Right? And then not that this is like what something needs to go through, but there is some sort of truth to the idea that like uh having something to say really it matters. It matters. And after after last year, I've I've absolutely 100% without a doubt. Yeah, got something to say and like written the best stuff that I've written lyrically. I've given up on this idea that I need to take these these things that I've created over the years, like these these riffs or whatever, and they need to fit and I need I need to write something to these. And the song that I sent you actually um is it's got one of the first things I've ever written, I ever wrote uh in it. And instead of it being the uh the main line of the music, instead of it being like the star of the show, it's in the background during the chorus, and it fits perfectly. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you took the ego out of it, and the place you're in allowed you to explore it and really apply it you know to where you're at. And that's interesting, you know, because uh, you know, as fucking high schoolers, we don't have shit to say. You know, I I remember trying, you what we were writing some like what we get on like quantum physics or something with this song. Oh fucking. We got out there, none of the stuff. I don't know what it was.
SPEAKER_03:You know, like you got you got some of the best bands ever were fucking high school students that came together, but it is true when you were in high school, like the drama of of life seemed so big, right?
SPEAKER_00:And you just look back and it's like I was such so dumb.
SPEAKER_03:God forbid, god forbid you ever looked at your fucking Facebook post from high school. You want to fucking slap the shit out of that person. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:You ever look at your Yeah, I definitely look back and I'm like, I fucking hated it.
SPEAKER_03:Lord, why did we what was wrong with what a dumb, dumb kid.
SPEAKER_00:It's like even my wife, you know, Katie was saying that I told her about how I was in high school, kind of as a person. She's like, I would have fucking hated you in high school. Like I never would have had anything to do with you. It's like that track, like, you know, she hardly didn't talk to anybody, but she said, I would have looked at you and thought you were obnoxious. You know, because I've always been kind of a goofball and all that, but I was much more in your face about it back then. And most people were, you know, kind of okay with that in high school. But, you know, I look back at that person too, and I'm like, you're what a dumbass. Because what's funny is like I was walking through, I walk through Walmart, you know, because I'm shopping, and it cracks my shit up because I'll see these high school students going through, acting them nauseous, cussing up a storm. You know how it is. And I'm thinking I for like five seconds, I'm like, and then I'm like, holy shit, that was me. You get that holy shit, that was me.
SPEAKER_03:You get that embarrassment that kicks in, it's like, oh shit, fuck, I acted that way.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, we did.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, and it's part of being a teenager, and you're trying to kind of find yourself and find what works, what doesn't work, and what's funny, what's not funny, and you appear like an adult is the big thing.
SPEAKER_00:Like that's why you know you go through cussing up a storm and like saying sexual things that you don't fucking understand and all that stuff. You want to appear older and more experienced and more intelligent than you are. And I distinctly remember one of the best things a teacher ever told me was Mrs. Fisher. She was seventh grade, because that's when I was going a little bit. Um, she made a comment to me that we were we were talking about something that I was educated about, but I didn't have experience. Because I was a really smart student. I was one of the best performing students at the time. And we were having this conversation, and she ends up just shutting my ass down. And she says, Nick, you're smart, but you're so stupid. And I said, and I was like, Exactly. I was oh yeah. I was offended though. I was like, what the hell are you talking about? I'd say it like that, because you ever said that to her, you'd get chained up in the back. Um you'd have to write so many paragraphs. I will not back up. Um, but I she said, you know, you're you're you're intelligent, but you you don't have a clue what the world is. You have no context outside of school books on what you're talking about. And I distinctly remember going home that day and bitching to my father that she said that. And he's like, nope, she's absolutely right. It took me probably, I look back on that maybe in my mid-20s, and I was like, holy fuck. What a brilliant thing to say. And it's like I look at even my a couple of my nieces and nephews who are that age, who I love dearly and are incredibly intelligent. Probably smart, actually, definitely smarter than me. But they talk about things, it's just like you can't help but look at that age group where we are now, no matter how objectively intelligent they are, and think, I'm sorry, you actually don't know anything. And then I even look at like our parents, our grandparents, and they can look at us and kind of say that. And you know, but I'm not in a place now where I'm like, you're fucking stupid. You know, it's like, oh, you know what? Now that I'm at this age, I can be like, gosh, you're absolutely right. I got I got no I got no fight back on that. You're absolutely right. Like you have knowledge and experience on this part, I don't have yet. And I, you know what? I'll get there. You know, but you know, at that age, you're just like, again, proving yourself in everything. You have to be older. You have to be more intelligent. You want to force yourself to have experiences that you're just not ready for. Yeah. You know, sexual is a big one.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you know, kids want to force that into themselves. I mean, I'm not hidden this. My first was at 26 years old. And I think that's not been a bad thing. Um, you know, my first true relationship ended up being my wife, and we have, I don't know, many relationships better than ours. Um, like there is something to finding yourself before you kind of go into that. Now, maybe I waited a little too long, however, you want to look at that. But in my in my life, I think it benefited.
SPEAKER_03:Well, listen. Um, I'm trying to I'm trying to decide how how much I want to say or like reveal, but you know, like you you you know that I was in a very long relationship, and in that relationship I went through a lot mentally. It wasn't all bad. There's a lot of good. No, no, true, true. But it was a very taxing, the best way to put it, it's a very taxing relationship. And um I gave up a lot. I gave up a lot of myself, um, to the point where things are very important to me. Most uh mostly my like music. I you know, I I early on I kind of I kinda gave up on the idea of that I was gonna be like a famous rock star or anything like that, but yeah, even at the beginning of that relationship, um because of of her past um what she had experienced with uh her previous relationships and like what music represented in those relationships, she brought that into into ours. And you know, you kinda when you're young and stuff, you kinda are like, well you know, if I care, then I'm going to be sensitive to this aspect of it. And then you know, eleven years later you find out there's not much left of you. You know, and you kind of um yeah, I'd say probably two, three years ago. It occurred to me like there's nothing left. If it was a room, if I had a room with myself. Right, and you got like the rooms like you know, uh halfway filled with you. Right. The rest of it is the rest of what you could be or what could be in your life. That room became so full with someone else's stuff that I started taking stuff out.
SPEAKER_00:Great analogy.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Great analogy, yeah. Point where I I realize there's no more space. There's no more space for me to grow. There's I don't have any I don't I can't there's no room for me to put stuff and also no one you're you're a shadow of your former self, of who you want to be. Yeah, and yeah, we we saw that change in the and when I decided like I can't do this anymore, I can't be this anymore. I want I want to do something with my life. Not even that, but I want to I want to enjoy the things I enjoy. Without judgment, without and this this went to this is this went to a point where we were kind of hinted at earlier was like getting to see you guys more. You know? Yeah. Um even my relationships. All my other relationships, they just kind of got uh pushed to the side. And it just was a very lonely place to be. Okay, so you know that that's where I was for a very long time. And then I started I'd always play guitar. I I will say I've always like picked up the guitar, but there have been times when you know I I pick up the guitar and then it's hard not to feel the judgment, right? So it'd be something that I did privately. Um and then I kind of stopped caring. I was just I'm gonna do what I want to do. And that's always the the beginning. That's the beginning of the end for any relationship when you're just like, you know what, I'm just gonna do what I want to do. Um and I started doing all kinds of stuff, like uh um, I don't know if I ever told you, but I was doing trying to do like modeling stuff, and I was in like commercial, and then I was supposed to be in a like a short film. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I was very but no nothing nothing like that, nothing X-rated.
SPEAKER_00:No, I no, I know, but that's really cool. Yeah, so there was well Unless you can't get into it, which is fine.
SPEAKER_03:I I did as much as I could without it being an everyday fight. Okay. And then obviously, you know, what happened last year kind of put everything on hold. Like everything in my life.
SPEAKER_00:As it would, as it would.
SPEAKER_03:I and it was weird because it was like I finally felt like, okay, I'm I'm getting out of this relationship. I was committed to that idea, I'm gonna grow as a person, and then it was like all put on hold for months and months and months. Yeah, it was months, yeah. For the right reason, you know, but still hard, still very hard.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're still recovering, and you're gonna be recovering for a long time. Yeah. I mean, you have years and years and years of this, and it's only it was only building and building, and now you're just now starting to kind of start from square one a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's a nightmare.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I was in this very odd place last year, mentally. A place that is is hard to put into words, right? Because my you know, my wife at the time was very sick, became very sick. Right. Um, in the midst of our relationship ending. Right. At that same time, i it literally at the same time, I mean my soulmate. I mean, genuinely, there's no other way to put it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:And talk it trying to you know I I I would never do anything differently than I did, but like being in doing the right thing as far as making sure that she got through that time, which was the hardest time of my life. There's just no way to put it. It was so rough. Um because she was sick. You know, you can talk about your relationship or whatever, what works or what doesn't work or anything like that. But the fact that she was sick was I mean, it gutted me. Yeah, there's no way no word way to put it. Um and then to also at the same time feel like It's the end of the relationship. What a what a horrible uh combination of feelings. And then we've talked about the guilt I feel for being happy. It's yeah, it's hard. It's all hard. And it, you know, um, it's all up your hill from here, you know? Whatever the saying is. You know, I'm on the other, I'm on the other side of it, right? So it's you are it is something that I'm I'm kind of, but anyways, in that in that time is like music, boom, right what I went. It's it's what I went to. Yeah, it is what I went to.
SPEAKER_00:And I mean you started sending me stuff left and right and like genuine like excitement to get this shit out there. And yeah, yeah, I mean, it is amazing.
SPEAKER_03:And it wasn't there was no again, there was no ego in it. It wasn't like I need to be a famous musician or anything like that. It was like these are the words that I'm feeling. This is the sound that just is resonating with me right now. And you know it's so weird because you know, the in in in my previous relationship, so much of my re my other relationships outside of that, right? Relationships with my family, relationship with you and Paul, it all became um whittled down to nearly nothing over the years. You know, um to the point where it's like I I was almost you know, you guys were uh portrayed as villains in my life. You know, that's that's the extent of it. Like the the the mm, you know, some of the most important people in my life are portrayed as villains. Everyone was. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And um there was the song that I I sent you, the one that we're kind of currently working on right now. That song is about how much I miss those relationships. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00:I I could tell this from listening to it. It's very poetic. Yeah, so it's it's a beautiful song.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. The house that we had talked about, the one that no one ever came to, that's the house that the song is about.
SPEAKER_00:And that's that part in perspective, yeah. Neat.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so like you know, the you know, the opening line is you know, uh, I always thought we had it made. That was true. Like, fucking we we lived out in bum fuck middle nowhere. Right? Well, goddamn, we had we had everything that we needed. And um, you know, the house was always loud and we're always doing stuff, and you know, the another line in there is um driveway always had a car that needed fixed, right? We weren't rich. No.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_03:And then my my proudest line in that is um the mountain the mound of dirt in the backyard was a misty mountain. I mean that that says everything.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's yeah, that's good right there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that says everything. You know, we're outside, we're playing.
SPEAKER_00:We playing Lord of the Rings and Right?
SPEAKER_03:The swords we battled with were sticks, right? So we're like we're out there sword fighting and coming up with these things, but then we're also big fucking nerds and we love what Lord of the Rings and Star Wars and stuff like that. And it's just about being like it's just how much I missed everybody. Yeah. That's what that song is about. I just missed everybody, and so I wrote that song.
SPEAKER_00:It's neat to hear it's neat to hear you explain a couple of those little lines in it, like your exact perspective, especially as I was there. It's like, oh shit, that is really good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know, you know what the house looks like, and you know gravel driveway on the side. You know, nothing fancy, but goddamn, we had it made, didn't we?
SPEAKER_00:We really did. And yeah, it's like you know, you mentioned kind of everything came crashing down on you at once, but yet your saving grace was your person you're with now. I don't know if you want to name her. But you know, your saving grace is who you're with now. And it's like, as you know, when Max was born, the world came down on me. You know, I was working 60, 70 hours a week to try to provide for a family as a sole, you know, breadwinner, which was never put on me, by the way. I always like to say that Katie never put that on me. Um you know, due to discrimination and things like that. Um had to leave that job, and then I mentally imploded, and then you know, we weren't making any money and just had a baby. Just had a baby. And, you know, I'm still, as I imagine you are from your 11 years of, you know, all that. You know, I mean, this was kind of temporary for me that ended up that way, but I have not been remotely the same since that happened. Not. I mean, you've probably seen the difference. I know Katie has.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And part of the challenge is, you know, I've I've mentally imploded worse than I ever had been. The only thing that didn't get worse was the suicidal ideation aspect of it. The passively suicide part amped up majorly, but there was never any, you know, intent or plan. Um, but it is way more in my mind now, oddly enough. But what's interesting is that I I even struggle to feel like I'm a good husband or a good dad or any of that, because I have to work so hard, especially right now, to manage this where I can even interact in any sort of enjoyable ways with them. Um because what's interesting, you know, I I mean, I don't know if you've noticed, but like, you know, there's always a fire burning under my skin now. It's constant. Like, it doesn't take much to bring a lot of intensity out. That's never really been me. That's a pretty new thing. Um uh to an extent.
SPEAKER_03:So Yeah, that's okay. I've uh absolutely noticed that 100%. I can tell you're a little more on edge and stuff, and um, even in your because you I and Paul are in a group chat. I mean, yeah. If we're I'm talking to you and it's in the group chat. It doesn't matter if you're called, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's true. Paul never contributes to the damn thing. Um too busy working.
SPEAKER_03:I can tell, but it's my mentality is the same as what it's always been. Like, I'm just I'm gonna tell you that you know, I'm here and I'm gonna show up for you, and yeah, you're gonna be mad. I know you're gonna get mad about stuff. I know that you're you're going through a lot, like everything's dialed up. That's what it seems like to me. Everything's dialed up, and yeah, you know, when you're when you're upset, I'm just gonna be with you in those moments, and I'm just gonna try my best to I know I know that you and I specifically, um, I can't think of a moment when either one of us has been mad at the other for more than a flash of a second.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, you and I no. I mean, honestly, God, no. But you and I, I don't think we've ever been legitimately mad at each other. That story is not the same for me and Paul.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:However, we can go through the worst fight, which is true, you can, and always come back to right where we were.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And I think there's something special with that. I mean, him and I have gotten some extremely heated things.
SPEAKER_03:Flip the table in a in a in a restaurant, apparently.
SPEAKER_00:Damn here, anyway. But like, that's the thing is that we heal from that. And in some ways, we all in ways we go grow stronger each time, or at least have a different understanding or something. God, I can't even explain it. There is a profound connection to be able to do that. I also think you and I would, but it's not our personalities. You're not personalities don't clash in that aspect, really in any way. Paul and I have such a profound connection, and I mean, but there is something in there that we clash on. So but every other aspect of our friendship totally overshadows it, you know. But the difficulty right now with having that, you know, internal flame just kind of always ready to spark is that, you know, as you know, I've got a nearly 11th month-old son, and I can't tell you how much I love that kiddo, and of course, Katie too. I mean, they are my world. And the challenge is feeling like I can't be there for them to the extent I want to be and be as involved and be as, you know, whatever. And it's because I'm trying to maintain my mental health so I don't fucking implode and have to go inpatient for a month. Um, so that's kind of the trade-off. But what's interesting is like Max and I have an incredibly close relationship. The challenge, though, is that he's not quite as satisfied with me as a lot of like like his, you know, Katie's mom or even his aunt page. They're probably, you know, they would be, they would be two and three, and I'd probably be four. And I imagine the reason why, and Katie and I've talked about it, is that internal intensity that is always there. Um even though he's young, you know, and and doesn't understand it, they they pick up on that shit. They do. And I even look back at my own dad, and God, was he in an intense motherfucker back then?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I remember when I burned that pizza that one night, set off the smoke alarm. We were the intensity. I remember the intensity of him walking out of that bathroom and the bedroom in his underwear, just like you guys should probably go to bed.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, he was ready to blow, but he kept it. He kept it bottled. I think you guys can go to bed. It's like 3 a.m. or some shit making a Totino's pizza. Burn the channel. We weren't paying attention to the damn oven, so it went, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um you also have to keep in mind that um he's only and listen, I'm not a I'm not a dad. I there's some aspects of this that I can empathize with, which I can get into if you want, but he's only 11. Like you or 11 months old, so like you've got his whole life. His whole life to be there. Yeah, and he's gonna see all those moments because I know you. I know I know you, and my belief is that you're gonna be there for every important moment.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's that's what I mean.
SPEAKER_00:And like I've told Katie, I said I don't care where I'm at mentally, like, as I mentioned many times, I'm in the process of getting on disability. So in order to greatly enhance the chances of an approval the first time, I can't work. Like my money, I have to keep my bank account at zero. So if I did anything, it'd have to be under the table, which I haven't done. Disability people, if you're listening, which they're not. But anyway, what I'm saying is like that's been a huge hit to me, honestly, ego-wise. Because I can no longer provide jack shit monetarily.
SPEAKER_03:Listen to um uh Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt.
SPEAKER_00:Um No, go ahead. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:This is something that I like have really, really been struggling with myself because I went from being being a husband. Right? That role. Um and I feel like a pretty pretty good husband.
SPEAKER_00:If I'm you were and are great, however you want to look at that, right?
SPEAKER_03:Um and then to have that all fall apart. Right. It is so hard to convince myself that you were a good husband. That I was a good husband. And and now I'm in a relationship where it's I I received more validation than I ever thought that I could possibly receive all the time. And it's still hard for me.
SPEAKER_00:You also didn't think you were worth worthy of it.
unknown:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Which is why it's exactly why it's playing into how you feel now. It's like so many years of not feeling worthy and made to believe you weren't worthy, even though somebody who adores you on every level, your soulmate, again, can't really convince you. Somebody that close, like that intimate, like your soulmate, can kind of, you know, urge you toward the right answer a little bit easier, as mine has, but it's gonna take time for that thinking to adjust, but the patience the patience that a good woman has is unreal. Yeah, um, I don't know if you struggle with this, like with your current girl, but like I mean, God, I can think back practically to the beginning of mine and Katie's relationship. I I I still think like, why the hell are you with me? Like, what the fuck? I I don't know if you have that. Probably.
SPEAKER_03:I say it. I say it to her. I probably shouldn't say it, but I say it all the time. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand. Um but the my fault and she's explained it to me a couple times, like why I do this, but I I I have challenged I've challenged repeatedly how like the the sincerity of of how she feels about me. Me too. In all kind all kinds of ways. Why I do it, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Me too. And I don't even have a tragic relationship history to contribute to that. That's all self-image. But you're you got a different reason, but I imagine it's the same manifestation of those insecurities.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, where it's like, you know, there's it's it's just so unbelievable, like almost to the point where sometimes it's like I'm trying to convince her that she doesn't like me. Oh damn it.
SPEAKER_00:Me too, Bud. Me too.
SPEAKER_03:And it's like there's there's no way, there's no way that you're you genuinely love me the way you're showing.
SPEAKER_00:There's gotta be some kind of there's some kind of manipulation.
SPEAKER_03:And then you start to feel like, uh, what what did I do to convince you? Like, how am I manipulating this person to think that I'm something I'm not? Right?
SPEAKER_00:It's a fucking bad rabbit hole. Yeah. It's one that hell, it might be pretty perpetual. It's been perpetual for me. And I think I don't know, it might be something you kind of always struggle with a little bit. Um I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But that's the thing, is like, I've told Katie, and I think I don't know if I mentioned it on the podcast or not, but it's like, you know, as everybody knows, you know, we really had troubles conceiving Max. Um, you know, we did. We had to use a, I don't know what they call them, but we we call it a turkey vaster thing. I mean, that's what it is. I mean, that and gosh, a lot of people don't even know about them. So if we ever get a sponsorship, I'll probably fucking ask them. Um, because it's a brilliant thing. I mean, it it is. And you know, we couldn't afford afford in vitro. Uh, you know, uh, we we really had troubles. And I mean, it's the point where when she took the pregnancy test the first time, I don't know if I told you that. When she took it, it was like she woke me up and she's like, this I'm pregnant. And we're like, no. It wasn't really jokey like that. We're like, no way. There's no way. She took three pregnancy tests after that. I mean, three. We were that blown away. And what's interesting with that though is after we had an accident, of course, I was in a really bad place the first two to three months. We were in the car at Mochanut, just got coffee, and you know, me, I just spring a deep, depressing story on her, like a thought. And poor girl. Poor, poor girl. And I told her I said, I just can't fucking help it. It's a problem. Gotten better though. And she also has learned so much about me through this mental regression I've had. It's actually been beneficial for both of us in a weird way. But anyway, I told her in the car, I said, we got our coffee and we're just sitting there drinking it. And of course, the conversation developed. But I said, Do you realize I would have divorced you so that you could have had a child? I said, I would have left you so that you could have had a child. Because my fear was if we couldn't conceive me being schizoaffective, I didn't know how easy it was going to be to adopt. And by the way, she never put any, I always have to say, she never put any of this shit on me. In fact, she came back with, I wouldn't, if I couldn't have a child and couldn't adopt one, there'd be no way I'd still leave you. But I'm so fixed in that belief, I told her, you realize I would have found out a way to divorce you? I would have done nothing to hurt her. I hell, I would have taken myself out of the world if I thought I had to. Is that level of, and she got so upset with me and is still upset with me over that.
SPEAKER_03:Here's what I think it is, to some extent.
SPEAKER_00:For both of us?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. The value that you we have of these women. Right? Like what these women are to us. Like they I would do anything for this woman. Anything. And she, in my opinion, doesn't get better. She is the pinnacle.
SPEAKER_04:Same here, same here.
SPEAKER_03:And so then there's me. I I feel like I'm doing her a disservice. Like she's stuck with me.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:She's she's stuck with me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm like, you got a fucking mentally ill fucker who's not working, you know. I mean, yeah, I totally get that. It's like you could have had some wealthy guy to give you the perfect house, give you a just as beautiful of a son, and all that shit. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing? I I there was a period where I get mad at her over it. It was that bad. I would get like, why, why? Like, why? What the fuck is wrong with you? It'd be that level of frustration that I don't understand. And I still struggle with that. It's that song by the red stray clays that you got me into, wondering why. She keeps on loving me, and I keep on wondering why. I mean that song, the instant it you showed that to me when you were here one time. You you that was like one of the first fucking things you did when you were in the car. Oh yeah. And man, I was like, whole I saved it to my Spotify instantly, and I it's been a song I go back to. Yeah, it's actually a beautiful song. It's not like got any intensity to it, but I'm I'm thinking to myself, shoot, keeps on, you know, it's more of that vibe with that thought, but it doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_03:I keep on wondering why.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't know. I don't get it either. But what's interesting is like when Katie and I have had deep conversations, she actually opened up and said she doesn't know why I want her.
unknown:Really?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it's that it's that mute. I mean, it's not to the same level of like insecurity about it. But she's often wondered why I would want her. You know, it's just like is that a beautiful thing? Is that like a tragic thing? I I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Here's something I try to keep in mind every time I fucking act like a fool and I'm a dick and I'm seeing this really beautiful relationship, is I try to remember that the same thing was done to me all the time before in a different way, but and it's for the for the person that you're doing it to, it's it's hard on them. Right?
SPEAKER_00:So And you don't realize that, do you? You really don't I at least I don't think about that a lot.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's almost like you're trying to make them feel good. It's like, you know, you're you're too good for me. That should make you feel good.
SPEAKER_03:It's like But you're also invalidating what coming back to validation.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, invalidating what what they feel for you.
SPEAKER_00:And they feel like that's been something Katie said a lot.
SPEAKER_03:It isn't you know, it doesn't matter like what I do or like what I show you, like you're still always doubting me. And that's how I felt my last relationship. And then here I am doing the same shit in this one.
SPEAKER_00:That's a fucking killer perspective, bro.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00:That's a killer. See, I wouldn't have even I haven't come to that that mentality on it. That's a good one. It's a good one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's different. Different because I like to think that I'm not like being manipulative with it, but well, you're not manipulating, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's actually it's a different form of manipulation. Because, you know, your previous was manipulating it for her gain. However, you are manipulating it to your detriment. Yeah. But it's not out of anything negative to her. But the effect on them is the effect is the same. Yeah. Wow. That's that's gonna be a podcast short right there. That fucking thing right there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's smart, man. That's insightful.
SPEAKER_03:I yeah. It's it's what I'm I'm I'm trying to cope with. It's there's part of me that wishes that all these things didn't happen at the same time, and I could have been a more healed person before starting this my current relationship. And it honestly that's not the way it went. So I gotta kinda like deal with how the cards fall, but I'd just be glad you found her.
SPEAKER_00:It is like what you said, what I've heard you say before is you don't know if you would have made it through it. No, maybe period, or at least as well as if you didn't find her.
SPEAKER_03:There were days when I thought if I didn't have this person to talk to, because that's all we were we were just.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, for the beginning was all you were doing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's why if I didn't have this person just to talk to, I don't know how I'd be getting through these days. Because there were moments when it was like the loneliest place in the world. Right? And just a ton of guilt that went associated went along with it. I was feeling it's still now, I feel heartbroken that you know, my my ex, she's still going through what she's going through, and I'm not there.
SPEAKER_02:You know, well you still love her.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, I mean, I know it's changed, that dynamic has changed, but in you don't put you don't put eleven years into somebody and that all just goes away.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but we weren't to we weren't like together through all of that. True. Yeah, that's true. So it was like this just horrible feeling of like sticking to what I wanted for my for myself, but also being there for her and being both of those things was hard on both of us. And you know, it's here is this person who's really sick, and I'm trying to help them, and they they also hate me, and they also are saying things that I used to bite my tongue and not say anything back, and now I'm I'm angry at them for the things that they're saying to me, but they're also again very sick, so it's just like this like weird, awful place.
SPEAKER_00:It's a cyclical thing. You can't you can't remedy either side of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and then in your own head. Yeah, and then I'm the only thing that was keeping me keeping my head above water was just being able to vent and talk to someone who I don't know, just had a really amazing connection with.
SPEAKER_00:And that's the interesting thing, too, is like, and this is not a point of anything for me other than that is a connection you needed that I couldn't provide, that Paul couldn't really provide. You needed something deeper or different, then deeper too. But like there is something to a significant other, or like I don't know if you want to say I don't want to say opposite sex, because then that applies a different connotation to it, you know, because gay couples can have that too, or any of that, you know what I mean? It's not about that, it is about it's not even it wasn't even a romantic connection at the time.
SPEAKER_03:It's just your person.
SPEAKER_00:It's your soul, it is your soulmate.
SPEAKER_03:Like your person. I'm not a religious person, neither one of us are religious people, but there was something to meeting this woman that is just so profound, and uh I don't I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's interesting. I don't know if you remember when I met Katie. I know when I first brought her over, like you were like, holy shit, what an amazing person.
SPEAKER_03:Um like, what an angel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And what's interesting though is um I thought probably literally a month into that relationship, no kidding. I really thought she was my soulmate a month in. And it got to the point where I had her on a pedestal for two to three years, which was not healthy for either one of us. Because there's expectation. No, what's weird is like, I mean, when you have somebody on a pedestal, they're perfect in every way, even in their flaws. So, you know, you build this person up, and then once they you realize they're a person like you, it's hard because then you're starting to see their flaws because you're just like, oh shit, they are a person. And then it's hard to accept their flaws. So you're doing your both sides a disservice, and it's taken me years to, honest to God, accept her as a human being in a weird way, as a flawed human being, both to our detriment. But like I said, we've we've grown from that. I mean, I can tell you, Katie and I have been through things as a couple that I think majority of couples would not have made it through. When you're talking the mental illness um struggles, marriage uh parental things, you know, just life struggles, like, you know, financial struggles that we have. I don't think most couples could have made it through it. And I know you and your girl are gonna be the same. And I'm sorry it took you until you were 30 to to find her. But one of my favorite sayings, and it doesn't textbook apply to this, but it's like, when is the best time to plant an oak tree 50 years ago? What's the second time, best time to plant one today?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right? So you've planted yours.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean? So we're not getting any younger. This world's not getting any fucking fuck this place. Right? But that's my thing too, not to get on this tangent, but like I don't like getting stuck in this political shit. Like, it's hard not to because it's just so thrown in your face. I'm not gonna say if I support who's president or not. It's it's not really valid. I don't care who is. It's like, can we not just focus a little bit on our day-to-day a little bit more and like be human to human? And like we can't control all this shit. We have no control over it. So why are we living in that fear when what's gonna happen is gonna happen. Yeah, I've really decided that. And honestly, I have it's a full-on mantra. Like, I honestly turn on the news to laugh my ass off of what's going on. I find it funny. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. That is my number one thing. And it's like, if I stop taking this, whether it's the religious stuff that I've been struggling with, Tony and I just did an episode on watching Mother by Aronofsky. You've seen it. Holy fuck nuggets. I went on and ran after that movie I've never gone on, and it felt so good. It was so per like, it was so personal and like revealing about struggles I've had about Christianity for years. Mm-hmm. Then I almost don't want to post it. I'm going to. Okay. But like it got that, you know, challenging. Cause but that's what I'm saying is like we are not going to be able to change any of that shit. None of it. Yeah. And I know people, I know friends, I won't name them, that, you know, when Trump won, because they were Kamala supporters, were just like they isolated. They wouldn't go out. You know, it devastated them that much. And I I've that happens a lot. You see it on social media. It paralyzes people. Yeah. It's like, okay, I get it. And you know what? Him as a candidate challenged a lot of people from a more of a personal thing, you know, because he attacks different, more personal things rather than just policy. So I do get that. He does affect things in a different way that way than I think most probably have. However, again, the country spoke, he's president now. Whether you support him or not, live goddamn lives.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're not going to change anything. It's in stone now. No matter what that man does, you can't control it.
SPEAKER_03:I've had so many conversations with people that I work with. You know, like when Biden was president, oh my God, everything's awful. And I'd be like, Oh yeah. At the end of the day, like, what is your goal here? Like, why are you so upset and been out of shape? Like, what is this doing for you to be so upset?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like, you're gonna why don't you just go home and enjoy your family and just enjoy the life that you have.
SPEAKER_00:And it's not that you need to escape.
SPEAKER_03:And that's not to say that you know you shouldn't you shouldn't stop.
SPEAKER_00:You shouldn't care.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's not that you shouldn't care. But there is a you know accept it. Accept it's there's a point of what you can and can't control. You can be vocal about the things that you can't control to an extent, but like be happy, you know, try to enjoy your life.
SPEAKER_00:Um one of my biggest things. Yeah, one of my biggest things is that acceptance is the biggest thing. You know, there's plenty, there's some damn near everything in our lives really can't, you're not in control of. You're not in control of what family you're born into. Um, you know, it starts right there, completely out of control of that. You just have to make the best of the situation you're in. And of course it's fucked or not, just poop, pop, you don't know. You've no clue. You are born into that situation, and you know what? I was born into a pretty good one, other than this fucked up shit. So again, it's like you know, making what is it, making lemonade out of whatever the fucking thing is, lemonade out of lemons or whatever. But like I just am so tired. I wish people could be conversational rather than confrontational. And I feel like that has been the political climate now. I'm not sure it hasn't always been that to an extent, but like, can we not just talk about our differences as people? Um politicians have to deal with it differently. They're in charge or whatever. But as people, can we not just talk about our differences? And if a perspective says, okay, that makes sense. I'll I I will adjust my thinking on that. But appreciate at the bare minimum, appreciate each other's differences and and part ways agree to disagree and still maintain whatever relationship you had with that person. I've seen politics and religion ruin so many friendships and family relationships and all of that. It is not worth it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's not worth it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we can we can uh we could get into all that um in another another episode. All right, two hours and seven, two hours and seven minutes.
SPEAKER_00:Can you see it on your own? Yeah, I got a record. I got two hours and four minutes, right? Did you get a record half did you get three minutes recorded?
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Possibly because I hit the record button before you started the video. You need to uh you wear your glasses, right? It says two. Well, I get two things recording. So that one says two. You know what, fucker?
SPEAKER_00:You'll fuck you. Fuck you and your family. Um we can go on and end it, man. I know it's getting late, and you gotta work tomorrow? I do. I go rest and schizophrenic people.
SPEAKER_03:Probably, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Go shoot. Yeah, that's sad.
SPEAKER_03:Unfortunately. Better trespass them from the gas station, which I always have to do.
SPEAKER_00:You got some funny cop stories. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:We could we could we could spend all two hours talking about hell, maybe that should be an episode.
SPEAKER_00:You're just riffing on your cop stories about they're fucking funny. And so, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, there's some there's some things that have happened that are like I don't even know how much I could talk about.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's that's to your discretion, but yeah I know we probably as your friends and you know would know more because you know we're not gonna spout it out. But funny shit. Anyway, my friend, thank you so much for doing this. I hope you enjoyed it, and hopefully we do this again. And let's get fucking Paul on here. I'm serious. It would be fun. And how if we have to do it Zoom or whatever the huck this is, then whatever the fuck this program is. I just tried it and it worked out great. But let's see if we can do it. I mean, I'd love to have his insight on things, and unfortunately, it felt more like you were interviewing me than I was interviewing you.
SPEAKER_03:Um, we're doing our usual just back to forth.
SPEAKER_00:But anyway, um, thanks for doing this, man. I you know I love the fuck out of you so much that I would fuck you. Um there it is. Wow, it took two hours and six minutes. Yeah, one of our biggest jokes is that one day I'm gonna fuck that pretty little ass here, Ryan. And Gaddafi with my dick. Anyway, okay. We're gonna end on that now. Uh-huh. Ryan, do you want to list your socials or do you care?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I don't really care. I don't really post anything. Or maybe I will start posting stuff again once we start getting the music going.
SPEAKER_00:But uh Well then fucking list them so they know where to find you. And they'll at least look and like looking at your pretty.
SPEAKER_03:Oh god, I don't even know. It's R Y L E M A N N is my uh so your Insta or your Tic Tac or Tiki Tac stuff.
SPEAKER_00:It might be for TikTok Tiki Tac Tac Ricky Tiki Tac Tac Tick.
SPEAKER_03:Let's see. Uh yeah, R-Y-L-E-M-A-N-N. That is uh Insta. And then TikTok. TikTok, Tiki Tok, Tok Tok.
SPEAKER_00:Don't you have like 4,000 followers on TikTok?
SPEAKER_03:I have 7,471. So it's the same one, same thing.
SPEAKER_00:You know what? Go fuck yourself and film it because then you get even more followers.
SPEAKER_03:I have like 89% male followers on there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and we all probably know what they align with. No offense.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:You're gorgeous. I mean, if I was gonna go gay for anybody, I I'd go gay for Ryan. Unfortunately. You're gorgeous. Thanks. I'm gonna take some I've been taking screenshots throughout this, just like for my own, for my own, you know, use late. Yeah, later. Um, anyway. Great talking to you. Go to bed and get some rest and go serve your your state or your county or your municipality. My municipality. Your your yeah. All right, man. I love you. I will talk to you soon. We'll see you in April for your birthday. Yes, it is. All right. All right, this is beat the mental health out of it with the defective schizo effective aka Nick, where we always say don't look to the bottle, the knife, or the gun. Do you know the rest?
SPEAKER_03:Uh you don't have to look for the something you'll become. Look for the the soul you'll become.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, nice. Not bad. True fan here. All right. I'll talk to you later, my friend. You go get some rest.
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