Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
If you live with mental illness — or love someone who does — and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast with dark humor and lived-experience truth. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and frequently joined by co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we have brutally honest conversations about serious mental illness, trauma, and the real-world systems that shape mental health. Topics include schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, psychosis, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction recovery, religious trauma, psychiatric medication, disability, good therapy, bad therapy, psych wards, and practical real-world coping — plus relationships, family dysfunction, work, creativity, and society.
You’ll hear:
- Lived-experience perspective from someone navigating psychosis, relapse, parenting, and recovery in real time.
- No-BS conversations about what helps, what doesn’t, and what the mental health stigma gets wrong.
- Dark humor and honest storytelling that educates and humanizes instead of sensationalizing.
- Interviews with everyday people, professionals, and notable guests, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are.
This show is for anyone trying to survive therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos — or trying to understand a loved one who is. If you want language for what you’re experiencing, conversations that don’t flinch, and a judgment-free vibe with some laughs along the way, you’re in the right place.
We’re not your therapists — we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
Infidelity, Alcoholism & Relationship Recovery | Josh Guffey
In this episode, we delve into how infidelity, alcohol misuse, and family trauma can devastate lives, while exploring what real mental health recovery looks like.
Join us for a candid discussion on betrayal, trauma, and suicidal ideation, as well as practical recovery tools that help rebuild lives without erasing the past.
We shine a light on the impact of betrayal trauma on a family’s dynamics and how recognizing alcohol as a coping trap can open paths toward healing.
Josh shares insights on co-parenting for child stability without weaponizing them, along with strategies for establishing accountability, boundaries, and making room for repair.
Listeners will benefit from understanding how to rebuild trust and identity while honoring the past, providing a roadmap for personal growth and recovery.
Draft one boundary line you’ll use this week (e.g., “I won’t discuss adult issues in front of the kids”). Post it on our Discord "The Struggle Bus"—Guff will wordsmith it with you! (link below)
Yeah... He's a already passenger!
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.
We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
...Hello! Really? What a great way to start the episode. Welcome. Welcome to Bottom Hui. It's gonna stick, I'll tell you. Which, if you know, if you think about it, Guff, Bottom Huey beat the mental health out of it. Good stuff, right? Yeah, good. So um, welcome to the show. This is Nick, the defective schizo effective here with Tony Indypocket. And we have a very, very sexy special guest with us.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, we're a little under the weather. You look great. You can't even tell. And I and I gotta say, man, I'm disappointed. I really, really wanted the you know in-person interview, because if if we're if if we're stickler about anything, is we share everything. So I'm not sure why you think you gotta keep fucking germs to yourself. It's not cool, man.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, he's got he's got a little man over there. I don't want to be over there. Nick gets sick, he goes over there, little Max gets sick, and then uh boom, I take the heat for it. Neil.
SPEAKER_06:Wow. Yeah, I'd be so mad at you. This guy's doing math I can't keep up with. All right, this is not the math podcast.
SPEAKER_03:All right, buddy. I guess I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_06:Goodbye. So um, yeah, welcome, welcome to the show, buddy. Uh his name is Joshua Guffey. We call him Guff. It's a fucking badass name. I love it.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't know how that I think it I think it just happened in high school. People just started calling me Guff and it just stuck.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:For whatever reason. Since you and I have been friends, it's always been Guff. Me too.
SPEAKER_04:For a whole two minutes. Two minutes, I've known it.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah, um, welcome, welcome. So I thought you and I could give a little background on us, and then we will get into the gritty nippies. So um, yeah, you and I would have become friends and probably oh, it's our sponsor. We're advertising on Mountain Dew! No, they don't sponsors. Um, so yeah, we we would have I mean we went we went to school together the entire time. Are you two having this dialogue that I'm not a part of, which is gonna be the good girl?
SPEAKER_08:Good girl. No, I'm scared. Good girl.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, we all know what a good girl is. When did cocksucker go from a good woman to a bad man?
unknown:What?
SPEAKER_06:You never heard that?
SPEAKER_08:No.
SPEAKER_06:When did a cocksucker go from a good woman to a bad man? No, sorry. A good woman to a bad man. Uh, I don't know. But you get that joke, right? No. We call men we don't like you fucking cocksucker.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what the hell? I thought you were talking about trans. Anyway. Let's move, let's move on. Let's move on immediately. Let's move on on that. He warned me.
SPEAKER_06:Um, so um, yeah, we were gonna put the uh makeup filter on our on ourselves, but we thought that might be off-putting.
SPEAKER_08:You're like, oh fuck you guys am out of here.
SPEAKER_06:All right, so anyway, um, you and I would have been friends, I mean, really good friends since would you say high school age?
SPEAKER_03:Actually, probably uh after high school, really.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, because that's when the band was That's true, that's when the band would have our band, uh, which was called Fools Fale.
SPEAKER_03:Foosphalet. And then it's really dubbed that name. That was a good name, Fools.
SPEAKER_08:Foosfale.
SPEAKER_06:Foos Feli. Folie. Um, and then we had, of course, the hysterical mad men, is what that became.
SPEAKER_00:We don't we don't count that.
SPEAKER_06:We don't count. That was the prime era of the band. Um, and then of course, that is when a lot of things happened between the members and it disbanded. Fun intended.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. And then um, you know, there was a lot of bad feelings that surrounded that that were really unfortunate.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, Ryan said in his podcast, too, that every one of us kind of had a dealing.
SPEAKER_06:We did. We we all had what we wanted from the band, and then none of us got it from the other person. No.
SPEAKER_03:So um But I yeah, we could talk more about that, you know, when you and I do.
SPEAKER_06:I think that'd be great. Yeah, I think that'd be a good episode for the two of us to really expound on. Um, but anyway, just a little background, and then you and I kind of had a not a falling out, but just lost contact for how many years?
SPEAKER_03:Uh 2018 up until last year, 2024.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah, it was like six years. And that was not intentional on my end. I had a lot of things going on mentally and pretty fucked up time period for me.
SPEAKER_08:Um I mean, you and I have even had passions and stuff that we very just disappeared for a while. Life gets in the way. And it's hard.
SPEAKER_03:I even had my I had my own personal issues going on then too, last time I saw you in 2018.
SPEAKER_06:Right, yeah. We all had a lot going on.
SPEAKER_03:And unfortunately, when that I didn't I didn't conduct myself with the best behavior back in 2018, the last time I saw you in person.
SPEAKER_06:Right. And that was, you know, that was uh you were in a very vulnerable spot and responded to something not the best way, but unfortunately certain people took that to heart rather than just knowing where you were at. Because I think there is a there are time periods where we're in vulnerable positions where we're uh reacting to things in ways even at the time you were unaware are not the best ways to react.
SPEAKER_03:I fucked up. I mean, whatever happened that day, you know, I fucked up, I hold myself completely accountable.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, that's true.
SPEAKER_08:I'm just thinking this is gonna be the you guys could all make up on struggle bus.
SPEAKER_06:And I I do actually intend on reaching out to the two others and see if we can get some of that back because we had something really special and we were fucking kids. And you fucking kids. That's what broke up the band. We were fucking too many kids, guys. Damn it. That was the problem. You wanted to go the back door, I was a mouth guy. Okay, sorry. Sorry, we'll bleep that out.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, we gotta get this, we gotta get to what this guy wants to talk about.
SPEAKER_06:But yeah, so anyway, um I I think that was a very unfortunate situation, and we are all too damn old now and too experienced in life to hold that grudge. I I would love to re I would love to reconnect with him, but you know, and if that's not in the cards, then I just even Alexis, who was just started the podcast, has been posting on Facebook. I don't know if you've seen it, Guff, where she talks about kind of reconciling um how she handled things in high school with people. Yeah, so she's done her posts about that, and she even, I think, kind of commented that even if nobody reaches out to her or anything, she just wants to put it out there that hey, I was a dumbass teenager, and like I apologize, you know. And my thought is why do you fucking apologize? Isn't it kind of given that we were fucking teenagers and all struggling just being teenagers, you know?
SPEAKER_08:I mean, I think she's crossing T's dot nines. I think she's she's come to peace with it. So she's offering that piece to everyone else too. So I mean, I think it's good. I thought it was good.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, I'm not judging it. I'm say I just think it's implied.
SPEAKER_08:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:Right. So anyway. Anywho. Let's get to my too loud, or does that mean get to the point?
SPEAKER_05:Oh, you're Mountaine Deer. Mountaineer!
SPEAKER_06:I'm gonna have it up. That's just how I roll. I'll cover up the logo. They'll never know what that is, right? Oh, but the but the top is up now. Ooh, yeah. That's how we like it. So we just put the whole can. Put the whole can in your mouth. All right, so let's get to it. Yeah, can't you use a can to like smoke crack or something? I don't know.
SPEAKER_08:You would know. I I don't you wouldn't know? Different kind of crack.
SPEAKER_06:You look high right now.
SPEAKER_08:I always look high. Can we get to this man's so sorry? Anywho.
SPEAKER_06:Welcome to beat the meandering health out of it. Okay, so we were wanting works. We were wanting to talk about with you um kind of toxic relationships. Because I understand you have a friend who um is really struggling with his current situation and even past situation, and it's really grinding your gears, getting your skits into Fritz, even though you have no skits to Fritz. I mean, everybody's got a little skits somewhere. Everybody's got some skits, a little bit. So um I just thought, you know, Tony's certainly had experiences with toxic relationships, and I I don't mind to say this. Fortunately, I am fortunate enough that I haven't. I've only perfect time. That's not true, but I've only been with one person in my entire life on any level. So, and she's a phenomenal person.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So I can't relate to this. So so uh guys, no, I'm just kidding. Um, but I figured this is gonna be a mainly you two, you know, relating, validating, and bitching, branding. And I will interject with some witty I will uh interject with some witty sarcasm just to feel the fire.
SPEAKER_03:Sounds like a plan.
SPEAKER_06:Do you want to start, Guff, or do you want Tony to lead the way a little bit?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I'm curious about Tony, so I want to let Tony start first.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, well, um, so mine. I was married for about 20 years the first time. Notice I said first time. That was fine. We just grew apart. Um, we co-parent, all is good. Um, however, I met someone on a rebound. Unfortunately, um, and there was a mental health issue that I was not really even educated on at the time. So I think you mentioned it before, but it's okay if you don't want to. Huh? Borderline BBD. Yeah, I I have been lifetime scarred by the diagnosis, formerly known as borderline personality, still known as, but um well, if I can interject real quick, I'd argue that your friend's ex-wife probably uh has borderline as well. Well good choice. Let's uh we'll we'll we'll compare notes. That's kind of what I was thinking. But um essentially was pursued from the beginning, and I was intoxicating after being in a dead marriage for you know easily 15 to 17 of the 20-ish years.
SPEAKER_06:Wasn't in love, but the sex was good.
SPEAKER_08:The sex was non-existent. That was part of the problem at your next relationship.
SPEAKER_06:In your second relationship.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, my second relationship was when it started, not in love. Fire. No, it was all the way. And essentially it became, I mean, it was love bombing. It was all the the stereotypical cycle that you hear about, you're like, oh, you're the greatest, you're the most amazing, and then suddenly it changes, and you're the devil, and you lie, and everything you say is wrong, and you made that up. That didn't really happen. I didn't say that, you said that. Gaslighting. Yes, yeah, gaslighting hardcore. Um, to the point, you know, just to sort of speed this along, seven years of this, and then uh for no reason that I still to this day, um what is this? Ten plus ten, eleven years now that she's been gone. Woke up one morning, said I want a divorce. Two hours later, she was gone, and I haven't seen her since.
SPEAKER_06:So although we think we know where she is, don't name it, but we think we might know where she is.
SPEAKER_08:Well, if you two want to take me there, I think that would be a very entertaining podcast. We could film in uh the reveal.
SPEAKER_07:There she is!
SPEAKER_04:There's the act that's where we're gonna record the next podcast episode.
SPEAKER_08:I love it, I love that. That would be awesome. But it was, I mean, still fucks with you. To the Yeah, no, to this day, I am still wary of anyone thinking I'm great. You know, like if somebody says, Oh, uh, you're awesome, and I really I second guess it all the time. If somebody, you know, gets to know me in a relationship or what, and I've had how many now? A lot since then. I mean, a few. My my cycle seems to be about three-ish years. Um three or four major relationships since, and you know, about a thousand days in, it seems like it just goes away. And trust isn't do I know why? Do you mind mentioning maybe why that is? Probably selection, if I had to say. Um pick it from the same toxic pool. Well, the problem is, I mean, once you get to a certain age and you're out there and it's that, you know, the rejects pond that we're all thrown back into, you're you're dealing with some issues, your own and the other person's. And the problem is, part of the problem is therapy these days is about, you know, oh, if this is too much for you, what no, go ahead. I'm glad you mentioned it. It if it's too much for you, this is trauma, let's back away from it. Instead of That is one of the episodes I wanted to do. Okay, well, instead of teaching resiliency and teaching, you know, having one more pick me up, then they got knock you down kind of thing. Right. You gotta throw yourself back in. And unfortunately, the more times you throw yourself back in, especially if you have a partner who's not ready to handle their trauma or issues or whatever, whatever we're gonna label it as, you're fucked. You know, you are at the mercy of their wounds. So um absolutely you you get far, I don't know how long you know your friend's relationship was, but as far as mine, I mean, we dated whatever you want to call it for three-ish years, and then we're married for almost three. Well, I guess we dated for about four, and then married for two days shy of three years, and it just seemed like the shift happens when they've got everything they want, and they're still getting everything they want, and then they want something more or different, but it's not even you. Right. Like that's the thing. They use you until they're right. You are essentially a resource until you don't have the supply they want. Um and not all of my relationships have been that same way. I have the interesting thing is of the three completely X'd out, two of them have called and made amends and said, Well, I was wrong. I did this, and I, you know That's cool. So I have actually talked with both of them and you know had friendly conversations. I I would say that they are not like close friends, but you know, they were an intimate part of my life for several years. So unintended.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:I guess. But but that one relationship, that one relationship, and I this was the transformation piece for me. And this is the piece that I think your friend is ready for. I essentially locked myself in the garage and like lifted weights for two hours every morning before I'd go to work and just beat the living shit out of myself, and at the same time listen to, I guess it would be early versions of, but it would be YouTube videos on borderline personality so that I could understand it, so that I could get through all of the programming that was put into me by this person and understand that it's all part of that mechanism. And helped me, it helped me deconstruct some of the issues, but it took a good six months to a year, and I was already in another relationship, yeah, which fucked me up. But for a good six months to a year, I it was this weird no man's land of I'm so in love with this person still in my heart and in my head that I'm you know yelling at my parents like fuck you, you don't know her. Like, please stop fucking trying to tear her down. I still love her, even though I know she's the fucking most toxic bitch on planet earth. You know, it's like that you're always you're always in hell. So that that part really, when the growth happened, was eye-opening. And and I think while I still have some of my own things I still have to get through, I think by and large, I am still able to move from a relationship into the next one, knowing I have to put myself out there and I still have to be authentic, and I still have to be transparent, and I still have to do all these things. And that part's really hard when you're fresh off of a, you know, here's a little sawdust, I'm gonna fuck you in the ass. It you come out sore, and it's really, really, I mean, I'm sure you've heard from your friend, like this feels so uncomfortable, but you have to make yourself. Otherwise, and this is the piece based on what I've heard about his story if you don't, the anger takes over, and the anger pushes you in the wrong direction. Because, man, I straight out of that relationship, I'm looking at all the red pill shit. I'm like, oh wow, MGTOW, that sounds fucking great. Fuck these bitches. I don't even want anything to do, you know, and that's that self-protection piece. And it took you a minute to come out of that. But that's not the way I'm made.
SPEAKER_06:No. You know? Like You're an incredibly loving, actually a pretty romantic person.
SPEAKER_08:I I am a relationship guy. Yeah, you are? I mean, that's the thing. Yeah. It that's why there's at least three or four years of a relationship every time instead of Ho one, ho two, hoe three, here's the roster. You know, what are we what are we doing this week? It just it just doesn't it doesn't work for me.
SPEAKER_03:No, you know, so yeah, the problem with my my friend though, you said that you're out in the garage and you're pumping weights and everything. My friend, instead of pumping weights, he was pumping beer cans and you know, liquor bottles, listening to depressing ass music.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, right. And music can be good for that sort of thing, but if you let the music take you down instead of meeting you where you are and then building up with other stuff, can you describe that process?
SPEAKER_06:Because you taught me that like in the last what three months? Right. Because I think I mean you and I've even talked about because I know you yourself use music as a you know a coping thing. Um, one thing that he taught me is that you need you meet me that you listen to music where you're at, so wherever you're at, but you don't revel in that music. You like listen to four or five songs, but then start bringing in the more positive songs, the more uplifting, the more.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, and and I'll I will tell you when I was doing my thing out in the garage, when I was listening to music, if I woke up in a particularly bad mood, I mean, it's 4 30 in the morning, and I'm at the pot, the floor, the pot. It's like kind of shit. And that's that's where I was at the time, right? You know, but from there, you're not gonna go so happy there. You're not gonna do that shit. But you can at least build up to, you know, Rocky theme or Eye of the Tiger, or you know what I mean? Like where it's still has instead of it's hate focused, it's me and focus focused. I'm gonna focus me and I'm gonna drill down to what I want so that I can go get what I want, whether that's relationship, whether it's health, whether it's job goal, you know, anything, yeah, career. I mean, it could be any of that stuff. But the idea being using the music to sculpt what you want this to be up here. Because if you just put in the anger all the time, and and there were days where I kind of stayed with the anger, you're gonna do that. Oh, I think there's a lot of benefit to that. But for sure. Because it makes you I mean it's cathartic. It it doesn't make you feel alone in it.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, it validates it. It's like someone else out there is just as pissed off as I am. Yeah, exactly. And they're putting it out there. Um but yeah, to revel in that, you know, long term. But you know, I I didn't know if you and I'd even kind of talked about that technique. I I just learned it maybe two, three months, four months ago from him. It's work. Yeah. Honestly, I use it now. Especially so if I'm listening to angry music, I don't mind pumping that, you know, and kind of sticking with that in a listening session, if you want to call it. If I'm listening to the depressing shit, I've got to build out of that. And I'm not saying maybe somebody who listens to angry music needs to taper down. For me, that kind of turns from being pissed off to being pumped. That's a different thing for me.
SPEAKER_10:Right.
SPEAKER_06:But I will listen to the depressing stuff, admittedly, to kind of revel in that, maybe have a good cry, you know, or whatever, and then start doing the build. I'm not crying, you are. And it really does help. I and you taught me that. I never had used music that way, which kills me because we've known each other 20 years. You've probably even mentioned it. But anyway, I don't I don't know if you and I've even talked about that kind of technique, but I think everybody could kind of apply that, certainly your friend. I mean, definitely tell him about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Man, I think I've tried that on my own before. Like try to build going from depressing music and trying to build into something like more less depressive. But like if I'm in like if I'm in a depressed state of mind, it's very tough to get me out of that. Oh, yeah. Like if I'm not listening to that, then I don't want to listen to anything else. Yeah, I understand that too. It's like once I'm done listening to it, then I just shut it all off.
SPEAKER_06:Right, right.
SPEAKER_03:At that point. Same with the angry music. You know, if I'm listening to the thrash metal, and you know, I don't want to switch to another genre. I I want to keep that shit going. Either my headphones die or I'm just done. Or you know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. I do understand that. Now you were you did talk about with me your your friend was like you just mentioned, kind of went to drinking. Um what did that end up how'd that kind of end up affecting him? And did he ever pull himself out of that? Like, was he able to pull himself out?
SPEAKER_03:Uh yes and no. Um he had an issue where about three or four months steady. And I hate describing like what someone does when they drink because you always have people out there like to do comparisons. Like one person could say, Oh, you know, I drank a gallon of vodka a night, and then someone else would be up there, that's pussy, that's pussy shit. I could do like two gallons a night, and you know, there's always someone out there that says that.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, there's always people trying to one up again everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, better said. But yeah, with yeah, with him though, he went about three or four months, whereas like a case of beer every night, every other night. So financially fucked him.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, fair enough. Yeah, that'll be that expensive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And uh it is the same, like as how that you know, he'd tell me that certain genres of music while he was drinking, it just kept him wanting to pump, you know, drink more instead of trying to better himself going to the gym. It just I don't know, I don't know. Kind of help him keep relaxed. You know, as contradictory as that sounds, I guess like it it it it avoids.
SPEAKER_08:It it's much when you when you don't have the cares and the worries, and it feels relaxed, but they're still there.
SPEAKER_03:It's still like the numbing, like don't have to worry about what's going on in the outside, you're just there in the present. Yeah, and I'm gonna do what you're doing and tearing yourself down, basically.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I mean Yeah, it's funny. You get the worst beating of your life, and then you take over, and you know. I mean, when I was out there, uh that it was I think that's where I started was I'm gonna lift so much weight that I fucking hurt myself. Like it that's the headspace. When you're hurting like that already, it's the weirdest thing, but it seems to be pretty standard.
SPEAKER_06:Well, you know what? If I don't mind, if you don't mind me interjecting on that, there are healthy ways, and I did a video on this if you remember. There are healthy ways of causing yourself pain to cope. So, you know, cutting yourself, beating yourself, you don't ever do that. That is never healthy. However, lifting weights until you're exhausted and your muscles burn, that is a healthy form of pain you can cause yourself. Um, that has benefits.
SPEAKER_08:Um It is funny, there's a focus that goes along with that too. You know, when you're walking and your muscles are so damn sore, you're just like, ah, I remember back in the football days, and yeah, I remember back in the days of playing football in high school, then even uh going to the gym a few years after high school.
SPEAKER_03:So I I remember the feeling.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, they're in that day.
SPEAKER_03:I think my friend, you know, fun fact before everything went, you know, happened to my friend, like rarely drank, hardly drank alcohol at all. Like so, you know, after everything that happened to him, you know, he just I guess lost all faith and humanity and was like, fuck it.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, uh I picked picked it up and I I probably inserted mostly Jim, but uh even I myself, I mean there were plenty of nights that I didn't I didn't have the energy to work out, you know, at night. You know, after you work out in the morning, you go work a full-time job, you single parent. By the time you sit down at night, it's like you can't get your head to stop. Yeah, I I have Long Island still to this day made up and ready in the fridge. So, and that is probably from that era, you know. Well, it it it wasn't like nice and fermented, it wasn't my initial go-to, but if nothing else worked, even I went there. And and I'm if I have six drinks a year, that you know, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_06:Well, what's interesting is like what is what do you see in media, in in TV shows, and movies, even in music? What is one of the most common coping mechanisms that is known? Not healthy, not healthy, but don't look to the bottle, the knife or the gun, right? So, like, I know we're just geniuses over here, but like don't look to the bottle. But what is that's why I kind of thought to put that in there because I'd say that's probably the number one non-drug bullshit. It's the most dangerous drug out there. Um I mean, for numbing, that's top of the list. It is, and it is the I think it's the most dangerous drug um myself. I've never been, I cannot drink because of my illness. I don't know what that would do to myself. I've never been remotely close to drunk. I've never even been tipsy. I mean, I just don't do it because I don't know how that would fuck me up. So I can't relate to that. However, I know many functioning alcoholics. And of course, you hear like in what the 50s of 40s and 50s, the men, well, the men come home from their jobs, they're fucking exhausted, they slap their wife, go take care of the kids. I'm kidding, that's meant to be funny. But they go say, take care of the kids, I'm gonna come home and drink. Because domestic violence is hilarious. Domestic violence is great.
SPEAKER_08:No, but yeah, but think about it. The the other side of that is he would come home and you know, she would make him the drink or whatever. Yeah, then she's running upstairs to take a volume. So it's I didn't even think about that.
SPEAKER_06:So it's different forms of numbing that are, you know, but alcohol still sticks around.
SPEAKER_08:But it's one of the it's it's part of the human condition, right? Like when we're hurting, we're trying to look for those things that numb that that take us away from that focus of that kind of pain. So definitely. But but please, I mean, continue with uh with the with his story.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I we talked a lot about him before we even did this episode, so we got a good background on him. That way we could talk uh intelligently about it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, my friend, you know, he was with his uh spouse for about ten years. There's a couple couple break ups here and there. Um but the cometh team within ten years was uh cheating, infidelity. And uh my friend always, you know, take her back because he didn't he had a problem with uh you know how do I want to say it? He didn't want to feel alone, like felt like there was no one else out there but this woman. Yeah. And and so, you know, anytime he would go on dates with other people, push them off, first go out to the side, it's like no, no, you're not gonna fill that void. And just keep thinking in the back of your mind that she'll come back, she'll come back, she'll come to her senses, she'll come back.
SPEAKER_08:It sounds like she did, right? Well, yeah now I was curious, I didn't want to I didn't want to interrupt because we've been doing that, but since there is you asked the question, did who did the breaking up? Oh, good question.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, it was her that'll break up with him every single time, you know?
SPEAKER_08:And then she would come back to him.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_08:So you know what I mean by BPD? Push, pull, push, pull, push, push. Happened to me for years, years. So I I I feel for the guy that there is no good way out of it because every single time she pushes away, you want her back, the hook goes in just a little deeper. And the drug addiction, those chemicals in his brain, they're fire what it feels like.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08:No, that's absolutely what he's got he was going through. So yeah, you can't you can't find that fix in somebody else. She's the only one that baits that hook the right way, and that that's what's so sinister about it.
SPEAKER_06:No, I'm not laughing out of it's not funny, it's just like fuck.
SPEAKER_08:It's fucked up, and but isn't it crazy that it's so similar?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is, and you know, it's the shit he's told me, and you know, and sometimes I could resonate with that, but like he would, you know, he even said there's one time they broke up around 2018 or so, and uh, you know, they were still seeing each other, but then you know, they were broken up. She happened to be pregnant, but didn't know who the father was. Wow. So there was uh couple options there. So you know, he had this dilemma, you know, whenever he got asked a question if they wanted to, you know, get their shit together, whether he was gonna be the father or not for this child, and he reluctantly, you know, agreed. So they get back together and have a child, and and uh to this I mean he told me to this day that he never DNA tested for this child, but signed a birth certificate, and that child is his no matter what.
SPEAKER_06:That is incredible.
SPEAKER_00:And uh yeah, yeah, he told me too that uh kind of hard to talk about because you know that it's a really touchy subject for people.
SPEAKER_03:But you know, he told me that back in 2018 he knew she that you know she was cheating on him and everything, and so they were set to get married in 2022. And she told him a few days before the wedding that you know she had been cheating on him and kept that from him for three years.
SPEAKER_06:Well, that's the ultimate fucking push. Yeah. Right before the wedding.
SPEAKER_03:It was like a hey, you know, he described it as an uh hey, so I need to get this thing off my chest and I need you to know this before we get married. And he wanted you know, after three years, you know, it's weird wild, but you know, I remember him telling me that he wanted to call off the wedding. You know, because he was like, you know, after three three years, he kept this shit for, you know, he kept this shit for me. So how am I ever gonna trust you again? Type of situation. But you know, he thought that you know he just had this, he has this, you know, child now, two-year-old, and maybe that you know, she came to her senses and you know was gonna actually grow up and being an adult.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, well, I'm sure he wanted that so desperately. Like, man, I wish this guy would come on here. But I get it. I mean, this is this is tough to talk about. Yeah, and I'm anomalous is good. Anominous is great. I mean, it's just when you got kids involved. Yeah, I mean, when you got kids involved and you know, all that, but I'm glad you're advocating for him. I think that's really cool. And it sounds like you got his consent, which is great. Um so hopefully he watches this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, 1000%.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and I mean I just I hope he watches it and gets something out of it. But anyway, love to talk to the guy directly. That'd be fucking cool. Anyway, um, but go ahead, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't I just got married in 2022, and then somewhere around late 20, late in 2022, um they had talked about possibly having another child and growing and building the family. But they didn't want to stay, you know, living in the apartment that they were at. So they were looking for a house to rent, and they found a place and white one. So they moved to Whiteland in December of 2022. And uh he told me he was hit with about a week or two after the move. He said they were talking, discussing like future plans. Like, so when do you want to start trying for a baby and everything? And he said she stopped and looked at him and said, What baby? He's like, you know, wasn't this the reason why we moved out here so we can grow and have another child? Oh no, I I think I'll just have a baby fever, I'm out of it now.
SPEAKER_06:So just like that thing you described, that she must have wanted more and more, and that person, your your friend, had to like be fucking killing themselves to give her that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, my friend too, like for years he struggled with uh speaking up, right? Speaking up and uh um not really communicating effectively because how he was and it sounds like that was partly due to his past, right? Some of that yeah past and possibly childhood, and so you know, he never he never was stand up to her and he wouldn't say what the fuck do you mean? It's real hard to stand because he put this woman up on the high on a pedestal.
SPEAKER_06:That's the problem.
SPEAKER_03:And so, you know, he didn't want to possibly lose her. He he didn't want to, you know, lose that family. He didn't want to be lonely.
SPEAKER_08:Yep, guilty.
SPEAKER_03:And so, you know, he he told me he has a lot of regrets from back then, like when you know, she made that comment, like what baby? Like, uh, it's just baby, I was going through a baby baby fever phase, I'm out of it now. Like he told me he wished he would have been like, uh, what why why the fuck are we here then? You know, like why the fuck did we move? Make this big giant move and make this next step, you know, if we're just not in the back.
SPEAKER_06:Well, it well and talk talk about manipulation. I mean, didn't you mention that like she didn't even want him to be the father?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he heard that since um they've been divorced from other mutual friends. That uh she never really wanted my friend to be the father of the child, and she hoped it was one of the other guesses. Who it could have been. Wow. And uh I guess she even asked his mother in hospital that day, like, does does he look Hispanic and you know and his mom said no he doesn't you know looks just like the father Yeah and very sad and distraught Wow Yeah he heard that you know after the divorce and everything's taken place from other mutual friends that know about the situation to hear that for sure especially for anyone that's a a father and uh you know he's even told me that his former father-in-law you know they had a conversation before and he commended him for what he did. Like, hey, I appreciate what you did for my daughter. Uh there's no way that I could have done what you did. Yeah, you took that you took that step and you stepped up as a man, and you're gonna father that child, not knowing if you were the father or not.
SPEAKER_08:That's amazing that that his fat still have still have that relationship. Does he still have that relationship?
SPEAKER_03:Oh I said no, he said after you know the whole they got when they split up, you know, lost contact with the other side of the family. That would that would be probably for good good for for good reason. Yeah, that's standard.
SPEAKER_08:You gotta get away or uh that he you would have to get away from that situation. But I I was just curious if if there was some form of sincerity.
SPEAKER_06:You know what? I I bet there probably is some sincerity in that, but just that situation, how look you wouldn't maintain that.
SPEAKER_08:No, no, no, no, no. I bet that was a sincere you'd have to go no contact. Yeah. I I had to. I had to. Because she because mine came back at one point. Yeah, she did. I was already in another relationship. And she saw that. And that push-pull thing, it was too much for her. Like she needed to know that she could have me if she wanted me. And then the moment she had me again, bye.
SPEAKER_06:You know what's interesting then? That's probably the moment you had the control of it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06:You didn't realize it, right? But like you actually had the control over. If I had said no, you would have had the control. I would have had the control, but I didn't. You could have if you had been aware of it, you could have turned the tables on her at that point. But in those moments, it's like, no. So deep in it. She got that hook so deep.
SPEAKER_08:It does become about such petty shit at that point, too. Yeah. Um, and it's the self-hatred. I mean, I don't know how much you can speak for him on this, but the self-hatred you feel when you finally realize because there's a tipping point. You you idolize and and pedestalize this person for so long, and then when an when a crack finally appears, you're like, how are you so dumb? How I mean it is the hardest thing when you are that level of raw, and all you want to do is protect that wound, but there's no covering it because it's gaping. Like I remember walking around feeling like I had a hole in my chest because there just wasn't anything there anymore. Um when it all does finally go away and you're still kind of reeling from the the addiction to the the love chemicals, right? And you just walk around in this self-hatred, and and it's it's the one time I've expressed to you that you know, driving 80 miles down the road, might as well just pull the wheel.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's funny you say that. He told me a similar story almost parallel to that.
SPEAKER_08:And it's and it's really not a premeditated thing. It's just like, well, fuck, if this is what it is, I'm not sure why it would matter if I did it. You know. You know, in my case, it was always, I do have a son, and I, you know, I was I was the parent who didn't want to have kids. Um I gave her the kid, and then I fell head over heels in love with him. Um, I absolutely love being a dad. Um, it it sounds like, you know, from the conversation we'd had earlier, this this person very much loves being a dad as well. And it it becomes the anchor. I mean, you gotta fight your way out of it. And and I hope that he is starting to feel strong enough to do that. But once you kind of get yourself out of that haze, having that focus, because and this part I'm sure was different because we were a blended family. She actually bullied my son. And I overlooked it at the time. This is one of the still very, very raw nerves for me because I was trying so hard to make a family, and at the same time, I'm saying, oh, well, you know, um we have to keep it fair and it has to be even and fuck fair, fuck even, right? Like this is my kid. And it took going through that and unfortunately putting him through that for me to see that. And I I, to my knowledge, I have not let that happen since. No.
SPEAKER_06:Um I will say though, your your child is incredibly tough. And like you know what I mean. Like, he he for being the gentle giant that he is.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, how how tall and heavy is Yeah, it's I mean, I'm 5'9 on a good day, maybe 200. He's he's 6'5, 320. So I know. I got a lot of is he the mailman's? Um, but you you cannot deny he looks just like me. Looks just like my dad's he doesn't have the eyes. No, he doesn't look like a stoner.
SPEAKER_06:What's funny though? Is I love how you used to, when he got really tall, used to make this joke a lot about how when you would scold him, it was like, now you listen here, buddy. I mean, that's the way it is, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_08:How old is he? He's 17.
SPEAKER_00:17.
SPEAKER_08:Yep. It looks like a chihuahua next to a great dame. Whoof! All you'd have to do is right. That's all it's gonna take. God forbid he figures that out one day. But but I I do But he's a very resilient kiddo, and but the but the idea that you that you let situations happen around this, and you know, the the phrase having a child is like having your heart walking around outside your body, right? Like people can hurt you by hurting your kid. Like that is the easiest, easiest way to get to somebody, right? And to know that, you know, I I and again, I I don't know this guy personally, but from hearing the story, there has to even, yeah, you were duped, but think of like the situations that your child has been put in. Like I I know you had you had mentioned some in the previous conversation, and and feel free to throw out generalized. Obviously, we're talking about a kid, so I don't want you to anything specific, but the idea that your child is a part of or is damaged or hurt in any of these situations by the neglect and the pure selfishness of this other person that at the time you're so head over heels in love with, you don't see it. And then when you see it later, you you kick yourself 200 times for not, even though you already took the beating the first time when you found out.
SPEAKER_06:So, I mean What what is powerful though about your friend and even you is that well, I mean, your your ex-wife is an excellent mother, and you've you've learned to co-parent. Actually, learned that pretty early.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, that co-parenting piece was always there. We we the first marriage we separated as friends. We just grew apart. So you know, there wasn't any blame that needed to be put on anybody. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:But it sounds like your friend, you know, I don't uh I don't think that's gonna be a possible thing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, well, with my friend and uh you know, with his ex-wife, they're able to be cordial, you know, for the child, and things were rocky, very rocky at the very beginning, you know, with all the co-party thing because there's a lot of personal issues still happening. And so, you know, it's not how do I want to say it for them? It's just cordial. That's all I can say. Like there's no fighting, there's no bickering anymore. It's like they can come together for the child's sake.
SPEAKER_06:And so I know you've you've recommended you've recommended to him like don't feed in to any of that manipulation that she's trying to do. Because that's what she is feeding off of. So when you cut that with her, and it sounds like he's done that, and it's really benefited him and probably even his son, because that's what I know she's after that. She wants to manipulate and get under his skin and get him riled up and all this bullshit. It's control. It is all about control. She's she wants the control.
SPEAKER_03:He's not completely, he's not completely innocent either in all of it, but you know, there's been times he's blashed out at her for for no reason. At least that's fucking justified.
SPEAKER_08:He said no reason. Oh, still justified, you know.
SPEAKER_09:Well, I mean, kind of laugh.
SPEAKER_08:We're not biased on this program at all.
SPEAKER_03:We haven't actually gotten a few. In this situation. Yeah, we haven't talked about the situation yet, I guess, where we can get into the whole co-parenting to go with them, you know.
SPEAKER_06:I just know the story, so I was preemptively getting pissed off about it. I apologize. I'm just sitting there.
SPEAKER_08:Drink some Mountain Dew and shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_06:I think I drank too much Mountain Dew. Oh, maybe. Sorry, go ahead, buddy. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:But uh, you know, back where we were, you know, they moved to the house in 2022 in early 2023. It's like from his recollect recollection, you know, they uh were kind of drifting apart a little bit, like and they also were not communicating. And especially with him how he was back then, didn't really speak up, he wasn't very ambitious, you know, just go to work, come home, watch TV, or you know, get on TikTok, scroll on the phone. That can uh break a relationship pretty quick too. Like you don't have those intimate moments where you know if you're not sitting there having dinner together, talking about each other's day, you know, what you guys want to do.
SPEAKER_06:Uh did he mention why he delved so deep into that? Did he mention why he delved so deep in like the TikTok and TV? What was causing and maybe he didn't mention it, I don't know. I know you're much closer to him than we are, but did he mention why he felt the need to escape into that during that period? Because I can relate to that.
SPEAKER_03:I I I think that is probably because anytime he wanted to do something on his own or I don't know, I guess try to it's kind of hard to hard to explain. Um I guess to check out because no matter if he wanted to go out and do something on his own, he would you know, no, you can't do this, you can't do that. Why like get he'll be like undermined or talked down to.
SPEAKER_06:That made to be the villain.
SPEAKER_03:He'll just shut off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So you just kind of shut off in the home. So you're still present, but you can get whatever little escape you can. Yeah, I I can relate to that. I mean, I I'm not made to feel guilty about that at all. In fact, even encouraged a lot to do that. However, you know, I I found that, you know, as you know, I'm an ungodly social person. I crave it. Um I d need a lot of so more than most of socialization. Um I think you're fine, but love me. Well, it's not about that. It's not I don't need I don't need the love. I need the I got shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_07:Are you feeling it now, Mr. Krabs?
SPEAKER_06:Um No. What I'm saying with that is I need the connection. I don't need to be adored, I don't need to be dick sucked all the time. I mean that'd be great. That'd be great. I mean, I'm not gonna explain. As long as it's a lady.
unknown:It's fine.
SPEAKER_06:That's all like lady, you know, uh uh tickle the ball, stroke the shaft, drink the gravy, all that good stuff. Um anyway. Um do you know what movie that's from? No. Tropic Thunder. Um anyway. Oh, that's why.
SPEAKER_07:But maybe once so good, so good. Um what do you mean, new people?
SPEAKER_06:Anyway, um Robert Downey Jr. is a black man is one of the funniest goddamn things I've ever seen. Okay, back on track. I'm sorry. See, you got me going, I got me going. Um you're just like waiting for the punchline. Um, so I will say, like I said, I am not made to feel guilty. You looking for the snipers or something? No. Lightning striking. So continue. I am not made to feel guilty about it. And it's a weird place for me because someone who craves that human interaction, all of a sudden, in the recent two to three months, maybe even before that, I do crave some isolation, which we did an episode on that. And there is healing in that, but there's also a guilt. Because I know in my mental state right now, I have to escape to process, to chill the fuck down, all that stuff. I have to do it. That way, when I am present with the family, I am fully present and I get everything out of it that you're supposed to get. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's kind of interesting you say that because I think, you know, at the time his also uh his company had just been bought out, and so there's a lot of changes coming.
SPEAKER_08:Oh wow. Oh shit. You had a bunch of upside down in your life in his life. That was crazy. Right.
SPEAKER_03:And so, yeah, he remained isolated. And uh, a good way to put it, remain isolated because he had work problems and he was coming home, and you know, when he'd get home, you know, that's what he'd do. He'd isolate. And I think it'd be fair to say that she craved, you know, the social interaction. And so she wasn't getting that, and he wasn't giving her what she needed, and at the same time, he wanted to be isolated, but wouldn't commute but wouldn't communicate that with her.
SPEAKER_08:Now and based on based on um that his inability to speak up for the things that he was needing, do you has he has he expressed resentment?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, 100%.
SPEAKER_03:Because you know, how he is now is not who he was, you know, he's not the same person.
SPEAKER_06:When did the shift happen? It'll change. What sure what caused the shift from being more passive, being more, you know, um, would submissive be the right word, to then becoming so outspoken and like kind of fuck the world about it?
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna let him start. Uh I I guess being tired of being uh rolled over by people. Uh tired of getting people, tired of walking all over him, tired of the bullshit.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, and I mean, and I'll leave your upbringing for you to bring out or not. But I know in my bringing my upbringing, and I'm not blaming you, mom. She watches all these, so hi mom. Everybody say hi, mom. And I I wonder if you're friends somewhere too, but but the way I think this is a societal problem, honestly. Um, based on because I dig deep into the men's issues things anyway, just as a single male, you kind of have to to know what world you're involving yourself in.
SPEAKER_06:But and that can get dangerous too, but there's a lot of good balance with it.
SPEAKER_08:Well, you can you can go too far with anything.
SPEAKER_06:Um like you and I have mentioned Bill Burr toes that line pretty brilliantly.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. He make he makes it funny. If he said it without humor, though, he'd be in general. Well, he'd be, yeah. Oh, fuck yeah. He would. But real quick, so my dad worked a lot, my mother is essentially who raised me. Um and I was raised to know how to take care of a girl and her needs, huh? I know you're going with this, it's brilliant. Um and little boys, it seems like, are taught from a very early age. We now be a gentleman, you open doors and you care about the lady and you do things for her. And you, you know, the whole, I'm gonna show you how to be a white knight when you grow up, so you can, you know, be Captain Savajo. Save a hoe mountaintop. But it's like so you go out there and you do that and you get your ass handed to you, your heart handed to you, you know, with a knife through it on a platter. When you can't meet those expectations that are set up. Well, but that it's not even the expectations, it's the idea that men are taught how to take care of women. Women, little girls, are taught how to take care of themselves. And to be Educating do that sometimes. I mean, I think without getting into or opening any really big, you know, go ahead and comment, people, that's fine. But I think that there is a natural dynamic. I think male, female, you fit together because you possess things that the other doesn't. A penis and a veg. If we're getting right down to it, sure. The puzzle pieces fit. I'm the harmony relief. But hi ladies and but the idea. Especially ladies. Hi, ladies. Slide into his DMs, he'll put you on the struggle bus. Um Which you can do your spiel on that. But I the with with little boys being taught this and little girls being taught the same thing. How do I take care of a woman? Like who's taking care of men? And it speaks to why we numb so much, because the way we're taught is you have to look at her needs first. And the day you find out that that's bullshit, it's too late. Is the day, well, it's a too late, but it's also the day you do turn back. And very much like what you were saying, he's he's come to is that, you know, I'm never gonna get treated like that again. And the beauty blow it up, the beauty in that is that if you are taking care of yourself, then you can take care of somebody else. But if you take care of somebody else nonstop and that never comes back, and you don't do the work, you just get broken more and more and more. Hard, hard to come out of it. Right. And and there's, you know, I mean, there's conversations on the internet about how the more you give, the less she sees you as a man, you know, as the powerful leader, you know, you know, decision maker that she supposedly wants, but you never get that clear from her because they don't know how to take care of a man.
SPEAKER_06:Well, it's it's a whole thing you just we talked about, I think, on the well, we haven't released it yet, the episode we did about men's struggle in society specifically. We talked about how, you know, women want to an animal in the bedroom. Yeah. And then we when we're an animal or a uh or uh a uh fight aggressively for the family or for for the woman in society, that's when it's like scary. Yep. It's scary that that's toxic masculinity. That's toxic masculinity at that point, which is fuck.
SPEAKER_08:I mean, it it's it it's not like they haven't told us in a million different ways. I mean, the biggest selling, you know, movie, book, whatever of all time. Fifty Shades of Grey. Fifty Shades of Grey, right? Like that's who they want us to be. But if you be that, you better have the billions, otherwise, you're just an asshole.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_08:You know, so and hey, okay, protect, provide that whole thing that men are supposed to do. And I, you know, I hope to do an episode on that, my on myself, so I don't really want to go too deep into that. But the things that we are supposed to provide each other, I think only one, I think only one sex is really taught to do those things, and the other one is told that they should do it for themselves when really what they want is what we've been taught, and we do that for them, but then they don't do the piece that we need. You know?
SPEAKER_06:And I do think that comes down to parenting on both sexes. Like you're parenting a girl, you're parenting a boy. And one thing I do want to say real quick is that I have, I'll say my mother, even my wife a little bit, and I think I can safely say her mother, because she doesn't watch this anyway. Um, but they all mention, especially my mom, will double down that when my dad passes away, she's gonna be holy fuck, I don't know how to pay bills, I don't know how to change the fucking furnace filter, I don't know any of that.
SPEAKER_08:But here's the thing that the and and and I know your dad, right? If he passes away first, my guess is he will have already set everything up for her.
SPEAKER_06:And if not step in, which is which is established.
SPEAKER_01:Or, you know, over here. I mean, I'll help. Yes, you will. I'll take care of mama llama.
SPEAKER_08:Mama's awesome. Mama Llama's fantastic. Well, we'll we'll have a love fest on mama. She's pretty good. Mama behind you is a camel. What the fuck you got a camel behind you?
SPEAKER_03:It's a camel to no air force, and he is based in Kuwait. And so he got camels for people in the family.
SPEAKER_06:Wow, I'm an asshole.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:I'm sorry, that's really cool. I love the I love it. I'm against the military.
SPEAKER_03:It is random, but yeah. It's like that.
SPEAKER_06:That's an equal. Sorry, that was random. We were talking about uh llamas and then camels are right right with it. Camel toes. But moose knuckle. Oh shit. Your biscuit, your beavage, I see your tutor leavage, your monkey, your monkey. It's camel toe. It's a riff on Kokomo. Yeah. It's on Bob and Tom. That's gonna be a drunk cover idea. Nice. Um, so but on that, yeah, toast. Like so, but on that, like my mother-in-law, you know, she her uh marriage ended in divorce because he cheated. Um and she I pretty much openly admits and she actually kind of warns Katie about it. It's like, make sure you know how to do some things. And it's honestly when I die, because I'm probably gonna die at 40. Um, but it's honestly shows she knows how to do things because when he left, she honestly was left not knowing how to do a lot of things. And again, I think that plays into that something. Yeah, the men do take care of a lot of, and I'm not saying this is across the board. Well, well, I mean, too. I didn't know how to do laundry or cook. So absolutely, and I'll tell you what, it goes both ways. Without Katie, I would have to learn a lot with Max. I would have to learn some things, yeah. And it'd be a nightmare because that kid's attached at the hip to her. Yeah. But there are things that both sexes kind of naturally are are brought up to do. Um, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but like you said, um we are de- I was certainly raised to make sure that your significant other is taken uh is taken care of. I mean, to put it in perspective, my dad, when my mom and him were close to possibly divorcing, there was a short period. I mean, he said, you know, if we divorce, I'm gonna buy her a house outright, I'm gonna buy her a car, I will maintain her home. That's right. She will be done. She will just and I that's admirable, and I would do the same fucking thing.
SPEAKER_08:But and and we are taught from a very early age. I mean, you uh in the movies, like every story you grow up with, you know, in the hero's journeys. I mean, it's always about sacrifice and you put other people's needs before. But if you look at the female playbook, I put my needs first. I I look out for me, I make sure I can be independent and I can oh yeah, it's independent.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Whatever happened to Miss Independent, whatever the fuck it's along this. Um I know.
SPEAKER_03:I I could think on the you know, with you know, with their relationship, you know, not one person did like everything. Uh for the most part, a lot of things was 50-50. Really? But then toward towards the you know, near the end, you know, it was he was starting to do a little bit more while she was checking out.
SPEAKER_08:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:And he could feel and sense that, you know.
SPEAKER_06:Checking into the hotel, checking out of the hotel.
SPEAKER_03:We haven't gotten to that part yet.
SPEAKER_08:I was gonna say it sounds like she checked into the hotel quite a bit. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I guess that'll be a perfect segue to talk about that.
SPEAKER_06:You're welcome. Uh I'm just excited to get certain points in the story, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:I so there they were living in that house. They moved there in December 2022, and they started uh hanging out with these literal next door neighbors around like March time period. And you know, he is not the most at the time is wasn't the most like sociable, outgoing. He was kind of like more of the hey, how you doing? I wouldn't I'd rather go back inside the house type thing. Like leaving. But, you know, and but you know, going back to her wanting to be you know the the social butterfly, you know, she would push to you know get to know these people. And you know, since they have a child together, they have kids together, it'd be perfect for you know everyone to come together and do, you know, have the kids play together outside, have cookouts, yeah, you know, drink, do all that dumb shit. Um you know, and you know something he wishes that he never did, yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. Damn.
SPEAKER_03:But uh yeah, so they start hanging out with these neighbors all the time. And uh what's interesting is that you know, circling back to she had a history of cheating, right? Well, coincidentally, this neighbor guy had a history of cheating on his wife.
SPEAKER_06:No, so twist ending! No one saw that coming.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, who who would have known that? You know, a blindfolded suck in the basement CB wonder to see what was gonna happen. But Jesus Christ. Oh but yeah, so around July, he said he came home from work, you know. His uh, I guess their son had a death appointment, and she took him to the death appointment and dropped him off at his mother's house, and she was gonna go home and you know work remote. But he came home and noticed that she was like in a face full of makeup and brand new bottle, you know, bar of soap in the tub that said Queen V. And I was like, what the hell is a Queen V? He goes, Oh, it's a certain soap that you know you make your hoo-ha all fresh and not fucking reek of nasty shit. And then uh yeah, so he moved her car out of the garage, you know, did some work out in the garage. He looked over, see a quality in car key, room 208, sitting in the passenger seat. And so he said he he confronted her with it. Oh, he said he uh not well. Like a you know, a heart sank to a stomach. And like, fuck, fuck, not again, son of a bitch. Like, you know, he was just trying to win her trust back from the previous attempts of cheating. And like, motherfucker, she went back to doing it again, she like relapsed. It's like what the fuck? And so he's like he knew the marriage is over at that point. Because there'd been wishy-washy times where it was made, like you know, she would tell him that she wanted a divorce, but then there would be times like, you know, I I do want to work on I do want to work on the marriage. But he said back then where he messed up is that he would have been like put his foot down, like no more of this wishy-washy bullshit, either you're in or you're out. And if you're out, then me and make we need to start making plans to you know go our separate ways. But he didn't do that, you know, he'd be in a simp simp and still trying to trying to garner and get her attention back, even after cheating. Like he was gonna excuse the bullshit if that meant that he could have his wife back. And so, you know, a few weeks you feel like a few weeks later, you know, you know, there's still they're still hanging out with the neighbors and he's acting like not nothing's ever nothing's ever happened and you know, still trying to be friendly. That nice guy that he is. Uh I guess he said he was looking through an iPad and saw that uh she had made Google searches for hotels near this guy's place of work. Wow. And so she she confronted him, he confronted her out in the garage. And she said that uh he she just looked at him dead in the face, like poker face, and then got mad. And was like, why would I tear his family apart?
SPEAKER_08:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03:The turnaround and confront this person. And uh why would you do that? Not with all these kids out here, and why would you come up with something like that? Why would I do something like you know, deflecting?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, well, and and putting you on moral blast, you know, some some that uh if it's if the I I will say it this way. When when I was in my relationship, I had that kind of thing happen to me so very often that when I would say something to her, they would turn around and that indignation, or there would be tone policing, or any number of ways that if her emotion got in in some way she was offended by something that I said, she would turn that around on me. Like, how could I? And I'm like, but you just fucking told me you fucked a coworker.
SPEAKER_05:Well, okay.
SPEAKER_08:Which which happened.
SPEAKER_06:But do you think about what he just said? His friend's ex was like, how would I do that? How would I tear their family apart? Yeah, the what the fuck?
SPEAKER_08:It wasn't even saying the what she didn't even acknowledge his question, his point of view on that whole thing.
SPEAKER_06:Or acknowledge that it would tear her family apart.
SPEAKER_08:Right. No, that's what I'm saying. Like completely just omitted and went straight to well, you should feel horrible for even insinuating exactly how he said he felt.
SPEAKER_03:Like that's exactly that's exactly it. And uh I understand.
SPEAKER_06:Because we're fucking feeling angry here, and we're we're two parts displaced.
SPEAKER_03:And I mean, well, a thing he told me too, a story he told me, you know, a couple weeks before he found a card key, he said uh, you know, he has just recently bought a brand new vehicle. So same day that he bought this brand new vehicle, you know, he's in awe, and you know, uh loving the fact he just got a brand new vehicle. But it's also pissed porn rain that that night, and the other neighbors, I guess, on the other side of the house, they were gone on a vacation, so they had their pool still set up. Well, I guess this neighbor guy and uh my friend's wife at the time were in this swimming pool drinking while you know, piss pouring raining, and she just decides to randomly just take her shirt off and it's just in her braw in front of this neighbor guy, and they're just staring at each other, looking at each other up and down, having this grand old time, and he said that made him feel so damn uncomfortable. Why like he he would say, why would my wife take her shirt off in front of our another man, another wife's husband, just let titties all sitting out there.
SPEAKER_06:Well, hang on, you said your friend saw his ex do this?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And he said this is goes this goes back to him not speaking up, you know, and all the things that he wish he would have spoken up about that he didn't. Why are you taking your fucking shirt off? Like in front of another wife's husband, why are you trying to disrespect me as your husband? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like, what the fuck's wrong with you? Like, we need to call.
SPEAKER_08:Yep, for sure. But it it it does make does make her comment even more maniacal because you know, in that moment, I don't think she was necessarily thinking about either family being torn apart. No, no, she couldn't have been. No. Oh, I mean that was.
SPEAKER_03:Same with same with that dude, I guarantee. He wouldn't, neither one of them, you know, we're probably thinking that you know what's interesting.
SPEAKER_06:Is there something like my wife is gorgeous, and I love being out with her and being like, how the fuck did I score this angel, right? Just glowing beauty to me. And but would I want her walking, you know, showing her shirt doesn't, you know.
SPEAKER_08:There's a limit to that, and it's okay to the social norm is the respect is that it's reserved for the body. And that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that I mean I'm he he's trying, he's even heard from people that are like apologists and like, well, it'd be no different if she was wearing a bikini top. It's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_08:But it's not a bikini top. That's the thing. Okay, if it matters. Okay, if it's a bikini top, we're all prepared to be in the pool, right? Yeah. But if it's just raining and your shirt is soaked and you go, watch shit. Yeah. We didn't get our 10,000 likes. We didn't get our 10,000 likes.
SPEAKER_06:Um, but yeah, that's that is clearly not acceptable. Give me a fucking break.
SPEAKER_08:It's also very manipulative. It all comes obviously, she was wanting that other person's attention, but it also, especially knowing she knew that he was there, right? The husband. Yeah, they're they're the only two in the pool.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_06:Did your friend know that they were in the pool together? Because he saw.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, from what he told me, yeah, he said he saw his wife and and the husband, you know, you know, me, his own wife, and then this neighbor guy were in the pool. And I guess he told me, you know, but he didn't eat, he only saw it because, you know, he was talking to this guy's wife in the garage, but he just happened to go check and see what they were doing. You know, and he walked around the corner and that's when he saw them two in the pool, and she was taking her shirt off. No, I was taking it off. I can't remember what he said.
SPEAKER_06:I assume they were already having the affair at that point, right? Probably. I gotta believe they are unless that was the start of kind of maybe that was the start of the teasing. You think it was already good?
SPEAKER_03:It could have been, but he said, you know, but he told me that story was a couple weeks before he found.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, well, there you there you go, then. Yeah, I was just curious.
SPEAKER_08:I I mean I feel like the moves had already been made for her to feel comfortable enough to just take her shirt off. Yeah. So okay. Right next door. Yeah, that's that's ballsy. Or stupid.
SPEAKER_06:Bitch, probably both. Okay. So I wonder if your friend's okay with at least touching on this a little bit. Obviously, he has a son. And um sounds like he's a great kid. Sounds like he's an awesome kid. Um I hope to meet I hope to meet them one day. I I think it could happen. Um but I could hook me up. I would fucking love that. Get our kiddos together. Fuck. Um anyway, I I thought it was Do you think he'd be comfortable if you touched on some of the dynamics between what his child has gone through with some of this? I mean you s you share what you think he would be safe with. Like what he's yeah, what he's told. Because I know that that's getting touchy. That's getting sensitive.
SPEAKER_03:I think when everything went down, like the whole the separation part of it. Um I would say that from just being around him and the child, the child was really confused at first. Um, because the only thing the child knew was that his parents were together and he was so young, he was like three, you know, three when it happened. And so there's a lot of there was a lot of moving parts at that time when the separation happened. Um I think yeah, they they just got him started in preschool, like when the separation period happened, like when my friend moved out. Literally, uh I think he's only a week into his first week of preschool. He's only been in preschool for about a week and then a separation happened, you know, with my friend moving out. And so that probably uh probably took away from his learning experience at school when he first started, because he was also trying to process his parents not being together anymore. And then, you know, he my friends told me that, you know, his son told him, like he would ask his son would ask him questions like why is the neighbor guy always at my mommy's house? Like I he's a I'll wake he said, I'll wake up, he said, I'll go to bed, you know, just be me and my mommy, and then I wake up and the neighbor guy's in my mommy's bed. And um, you know, and my friends tried asking me, you know, what I could say to that, but I don't know. Very sexy thing, especially if we're a child. But he he told me that he told his son you know, mommy and daddy aren't together anymore, and whatever mommy does in her time is you know your mom's business and what you know, and you know, he's he was saying, you know, what I do in my time is my business. But he's like, how do you is like he asked me how do you even answer answer that to a three-year-old.
SPEAKER_08:I mean, and I know or here's a better one.
SPEAKER_03:Or here's a better one. Yeah, he told me that his son even told him once too that he said that uh there was one time he woke up because he was thirsty. So he said that he walked to his mom's bedroom door and it was shut and locked, and then went and asked his dad, like, why do I get up and I go knock on my mommy's door to get to tell him I want something to drink, but I hear them wrestling. And I'm like, fuck. Yeah, that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah. Well, and I mean, you maybe you don't have access to this information, but I know with my with my son, when when we did first his mother and I got divorced, there was this he still believed that we would get back together. And and that's a pretty common thing. It's crushing as a dad when when that realization hits him that you're not gonna get back together. Because I think that's for my son, that was the beginnings of you know, he he has developed into a pretty solid young man. But I do remember, you know, there were there was some acting out and some you know behaviors that happened as a result of the insecurity, because you know, when you when your you know your mommy and your daddy don't want to be together, like which part of you is bad because you're both of them. Oh yeah, take blame on that though, like it's my fault. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and he and my my my friend made like the big cardinals, he he made the big cardinal sin of uh talking bad about the mother, you know, to his son. And that's that's the hard part. I mean in those early stages, yeah, he messed up big time, you know, talking bad about his mother. And I mean even go as far as to telling the son, you know, why his mom and daddy aren't together anymore. And what three, four-year-old needs to hear those details.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, you I haven't even told my 17-year-old that one.
SPEAKER_06:So that you know what though, I will justify that you are still processing this too. I mean, your friend is definitely still processing.
SPEAKER_08:Definitely, and what the fuck? There, there have been so like in the 17 years, there have been easily hundreds of opportunities, you know, where he's frustrated with his mother, and you want to feed into it. I want to tell him why she is the way she is, kind of thing, you know, because like I spent 20 years with her, I know her, I know why she is the way she is. But God, it's the hardest thing. Um, and the the crazy thing is, and I mean, I I don't know. I assume it's gonna be very similar because I mean, as humans, we do take fairly similar tracks through certain traumas, but I mean, there was a time where he was just not a fan of hers, and I kept having to reinforce that she's a good mom and that she's your mom and she loves you very much, and like trying to put this positive spin on something that I was really struggling with myself, like I mean, how you feel like you're lying to your kid because you hate the other person so much that you but you know what's best for them. I mean, I in this conversation, like several times, um I know that there have been times where you've said that he's even he sounds, especially now, very self-aware of even the things he did in the relationship. Which that's a big step, which that's huge, yeah. It really is. And and that growth piece is something to hold on to for sure, because those are the stepping tone stepping stones to the future you're gonna create. You know, that that the future there is so much truth to whatever the lens is you look at your life through, that's the life you you're gonna see. That that's what's gonna end up happening.
SPEAKER_06:So as the parent, you can you can start the framework of that for your child.
SPEAKER_03:For your child as well, yeah, exactly. And so and he's he's worked very hard on you know getting that with his son, and you know uh worked on himself quite a bit, you know, not you know talking horrible about his mother.
SPEAKER_06:I'm sure when he goes out with you, I'm sure when he hangs out with you, he's bitching pretty good, I imagine. That's my friend. Uh right. It's safe with friends for sure. Right, how have you seen him?
SPEAKER_03:But he's a but you know, since he's basically since he's changed that, uh, you know, how he deals with all that with his son, uh his son has grown drastic drastically in school. Like his behavior is so much better. Uh we get less calls from the school about his behavior, you know, from what he's told me. Um so it's just a major, major overall improvement.
SPEAKER_08:And this is just a few years, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Going on to two years, I guess. Yeah. Okay. The better part of the year he's worked worked his ass off, you know, to not be that toxic.
SPEAKER_06:Kudos to him. And that's so fucking hard.
SPEAKER_03:I can only I can only like like it's like he said, you know, he said looking back at it, you know, when the whole affair thing happened, he said it wasn't until a few months after the whole finding the car key that she came clean and said that she was having the affair with an expert.
SPEAKER_06:It took her that long.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, a few months.
SPEAKER_06:She held on to that. What a bomb to fucking drop.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know, I don't know what the reasoning would have been. But yeah, apparently. She said they started their affair like second week of July. So I guess around the whole card key incident with a pinpointed second week of July.
SPEAKER_08:Don't believe it.
SPEAKER_03:I believe I believe he told me it was like October, November is when she came clean, it's holding.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. I I mean, it's funny. With mine, there would be I would catch her in lies. Not my first wife, second wife. Um, I would catch her in very obvious lies, and she would do her best to minimize or to gaslight away from it, right? But there would come a point, and this is what it sounds like uh your friend's wife would do, is you only admit up to the point you can't deny that, you know, and it's like you said, I mean, my first thought, you said, so it was right around the card key incident. I'm like, bullshit. It's fucking bullshit. Because I mean, it doesn't add up. It doesn't I mean there's a lot of flirting and a lot of, you know, having okay, and I'll I'll I'll out myself on this. I have been a cheater. I have also been cheated on. So I know what it feels like from both sides. It sucks either way. There's no good feeling out of any of it. But yeah, I mean, there's there's a lead up. You don't just go, hey, this afternoon sounds great. Let's go to the fucking motel sticks and screw each other's brains out. It just doesn't happen that way.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I told my friend, I was like, damn, quality in.
SPEAKER_06:Like I could have done so much better than fucking uh not somewhere that has bed bugs and roaches and Jesus.
SPEAKER_04:Well, but I say what my well, I guess apparently that's what that neighbor guy thinks of your wife. He thought she's only good for calling in. So there you go.
SPEAKER_08:I got it all planned out. That's all she's worth.
SPEAKER_06:I got a nice evening planned at the quality in.
SPEAKER_08:I've got the Boone's farm on ice.
SPEAKER_03:It's like I was I was embarrassed, I'm the bearish for him and embarrassed for them. It's like, God, that couldn't have done any better. At least if you're gonna do it, you're in it worth your while.
SPEAKER_06:Oh god, that's funny. You're even embarrassed for his ex-wife and the cheater.
SPEAKER_03:Like if money was an issue, then what's the fucking point? Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_08:I had a relationship where it got crazy enough that she literally threw her forehead into a solid wood door. I'm like, you're spending the night with your mom tonight, fuck you. Because you're gonna try and call the cops and say, I did that shit. And so that shit's so common and it's so it's what I don't what I don't get is why women haven't woken up to the idea that when they do that shit, they literally undermine their own credibility and undermine their own um mess, their own um oh.
SPEAKER_03:There's people out there that have been, you know, assaulted. Exactly. That's it right there. And they can't, and they don't get the help. You know, right. But yeah, people out there that make false allegations. You know, I don't know what it is. Like if it's a could be a thing where, well, I just don't want to up and leave the marriage. I don't want to seem like a bad person, but if I use this as my excuse, this is gonna be my validation, like, oh yeah, absolutely, girl, get out. You know, type of thing.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and that's the fucking problem with the me too movement. Well, and that's what it became.
SPEAKER_08:That's when he that's what it became. I mean, fuck, just think about it. If okay, so if he cheated, he would be villainized. Like, why did you go outside your marriage? But if she cheats, good for you. No, what what was he not giving you? Good for you, no, but it it it does, it always falls back to, and it's so easy to blame the man, and then we've made it that way. Like, even men standing up for feminism and all this stuff, it's like, okay, but I feel like there should be the same level of proof provided for both sides. It can't just be but what what was the phrase, believe her, or I don't know. It was some part of the Me Too movement where it was like believe her, take her at her word, right? Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm like, Well, the reason why he doesn't speak much about it is because you know, he's heard from other people and he's heard like 20 different stories about what happened. Yeah. And he's like, you know, I know what, you know, I know what I did, I know what I didn't do. And if she wants to go out and say those things, then I'm not gonna waste my time trying to trying to debunk it or whatever. Yeah. It's like if you want to believe it, then believe it. But it's not true. And if you want to go ahead and believe the bullshit, then that's on you.
SPEAKER_06:Well, and that's the thing, too, is I think that's wise of I think it's really wise of your friend not to go into detail about it because that's giving too much fucking information.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_06:You know, I think you're already getting away.
SPEAKER_03:And he probably have to tell you, like, and he has to probably tell you like 20 different stories that he's gonna do. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:And that's the problem. So your friends actually really, I'm sure you two have talked about it, but like I'm so glad your friend actually is protecting that. Because I think you bait that hook, people are gonna dig and dig and dig into that. Well, and the more that you don't even want that. Yeah. It's stupid. Because then you're putting it out there that that was even a thing, and what's a fucking trigger word everywhere? Uh, you know, so like you can't fucking do that.
SPEAKER_08:You can't put the triggers out there. But the not engaging piece is very smart too, because it seemed like the more I would engage, the more guilty I would look. Yeah, you know, they'll see every part of it. The more emotional you get about that shit, you know, as a man, well, you're obviously hiding something. So yeah, if you just and we get angry and the monster. If he just backs away from it, it's like, yeah, believe it if you want, whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he knows what's happening. That's how he is now.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, that he knows what happened, like fuck what everybody else. That's smart. And again, you would only feed into somebody's um manipulation tactic if you do that. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're gonna energy. You're only giving them that energy. So that's why your friend, I'm so glad he's finally learned the strategy of that. Because it's hard. It's a long walk out. Because his, you know, his ex was operating solely on manipulation. And now for for for him to learn not to turn the tables on it, not not to like use that tactic on her, but to be aware of it and not feed into that. That's the that's huge.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I think the thing too with him is that he was aware of all the manipulation and all the bullshit, but on the other hand, he also allowed it because he held her up there on such a high pedestal.
SPEAKER_06:See, yeah, I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03:He didn't want to speak, he didn't want to speak up.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You gotta put your foot down and you got you gotta say something, and he, you know, wouldn't do it. But you know, that is just that transition he's made to how he is today. He's like, no, I know what manipulation is, I know what it looks like, I know gaslighting, I'm not putting up with the bullshit no more. And so I applaud him with that as well. Big pat on the back.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Round of applause. Round of applause. A round of applause. Um, so I kind of want to get a little bit back. I am so glad, like the MeToo movement, but not that specifically. Yeah, you got me. You got me on it. Okay, so I really on this podcast, we really try to be careful not to dog on women, dog on men. We can own what men deal with and then speak on our perspective on things.
SPEAKER_08:But it should be a level playing field regardless of diagnosis, gender, orientation, all right. Anything that we've tried very hard.
SPEAKER_06:We're honestly, when we speak about this is how you know women are raised or all that stuff, I it's kind of an objective viewpoint. It's not really necessarily. I think it's just kind of a fact.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. Yeah, well, same thing. You're good. You hear all not all women. Well, not all men, you know. I mean, there's gonna be things that fall outside, you know, the grouping and bell curve, but by and large, most men are raised a certain most boys. Raised to be a certain kind of man. Most women are raised to be a certain kind of woman. And that's exactly you're so good at putting it. And it's very much at the center of why relationships are working less and less.
SPEAKER_06:Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_08:I mean the divorce rate's only going up. It's crazy. Yeah. Um, but what I was gonna say on that. If I can throw a little bit of shade though, please do. Have you heard about the divorce rates among lesbians? Is it higher than 75%?
SPEAKER_03:And the things Oh, I think I I think I know where you're going.
SPEAKER_08:And the things that they list are being ignored, not fair sharing of the labors, um, uh somebody manipulating you or like it's all the same things that they put against men they're they're putting against their female partner. So how far do we want to dog this subject? Oh no, I just wanted to bring that up to be like, okay, we'll leave it for interpretation for the video. There are actual facts, okay? Now, do I need to sit here and say this is a black and white subject? No. Nothing is, but I think we all, both chanders, all ethnicities, all diagnoses, need to start to step to the middle. Because in coming to the middle, that's where you can have a conversation face to face. Absolutely. And meet. If you're going to the far side any side. Yeah, I mean That's the problem with society in general.
SPEAKER_06:Agreed. Politics, religion, sexuality, middle, any of it. Extremities get pushed to the front instead of instead of finding the common ground on wherever you stand. And I would argue, honest to God, most people are moderate. The problem is the big fucking voices out there are the ones who are polar. And I'm not even convinced actually they are. I think that's just something they can get attention for, really. But that's the thing, though, is that the community, the camaraderie, the human connection, we're all not that fucking different.
SPEAKER_08:No.
SPEAKER_06:That's the thing. And but the big voices, the big personalities, those motherfuckers are the ones pushing that, you know, everybody's split. And unfortunately, look at our kind look, we'll speak for the U.S. I mean, I'm not gonna get overly political because that's not what we do, but look how polar it is presented versus the right and the left. Yet I talked to I talked to so many people that yes, lean one way or the other. I don't know anybody except my redneck father-in-law. Um he doesn't watch this. Uh like I think.
SPEAKER_03:Like, it's honestly.
SPEAKER_06:I I won't share who I voted for. I might have told you, Guff, and I know you know. Doesn't really matter. There were some things in Yeah, that's right, I knew you didn't. But like there were things in that speech that got a little out there, and I was concerned about some things that were said. But again, even he pushes that agenda a far right. Although, if you look at his policies, they are more centered. But anyway, that's the whole point. But what I'm saying is, like, these big names are pushing these extremities, making it difficult for the everyday person to meet in the middle. And that's why there's such a divide.
SPEAKER_08:Well, and when when you watch media and all you see is the extremities. Yeah, I mean the news programs and stuff. You know, and Fox News puts it. Most people feel they have to speak in that vernacular, like, oh, I have to be this or I have to be that if I'm gonna be accepted as anything. So instead of people just listening to their heart and really truly checking in with themselves and having, you know, the self-awareness to have some personal growth. They're kind of corrupted by the big personalities.
SPEAKER_06:Well, that's the thing, too, is that people with big personalities have the power.
SPEAKER_08:What?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. The people with big personalities have the power to influence like that. They're so fucking in your face with it. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I should really consider what this asshole's saying. Because they're so loud and obnoxious about it. How can you not listen to them?
SPEAKER_08:Well, I know me personally, I will never ever jump without aiming for the bushes ever again.
SPEAKER_06:So that was one of the funniest goddamn things. We were laughing about that days later.
SPEAKER_08:I mean, the fact that it's what, two weeks, three later, two or three weeks later, three weeks later, something like that, yeah. That was about beautiful.
SPEAKER_06:That was serendipitous, loved it. That was the same. That's when that's when Tony knew you were the one.
SPEAKER_04:You guys are talking about this guy just jump off the bridge, and I'm thinking, aim for the bushes.
SPEAKER_06:That would defeat the pyramids. You want to make sure you don't hit the bushes if that's your goal. Um, but what's funny about that is I swear after we got off live with that, you I'm almost sure you were like, Does he want to get on the oh yeah yeah. So I was definitely invitation born.
SPEAKER_07:He's like, can you go ahead and text him?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. But um what I was actually, of course I digress because I'm fucking awful. Um I tried to try to. No, you two, I what's great is like even when I interviewed Alexis and you saw it, she had to keep like, well, back to this part, I'm like, I'm schizo-fucking brained here, and I it is a problem I have. Seeing I'm doing it already.
SPEAKER_03:It works. I just started listening to you talk.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you. So does he. I love listening to me. I kind of do actually. I just listen to you all day. Thank you. You're probably the only one. Um that's not true. Well, you too. 40,000. 40,000 people listen to me.
SPEAKER_03:Live streaming your uh showers on TikTok. I heard about that one.
SPEAKER_06:I haven't seen that one yet. That was at 5 a.m. I was having a manic episode and I was not probably thinking very clearly.
SPEAKER_04:I'm like, what's this? And then I click on it, and I just hear shower running.
SPEAKER_06:I just hear water with the curtain like I had the curtain closed for a while, and I'm like, this ain't gonna get any attention. So I opened it a little bit and I just showed my head down to here, and I kept making the joke. I said, if I get if I get so many likes, I'll lower it and nobody did it.
SPEAKER_04:That's like somebody talking, shower curtain closed.
SPEAKER_06:I was talking about movies and like all this shit. Whatever. It got views and it got follows. Did you sing rubber ducky at least? I don't even know that song. Rubberducky, you're the one. Oh, that's right, yeah. Okay, back on track. Help keep me on this because I really want to get this out. Yeah. So, um, with like the Me To movement, and the big problem with that is painting men in a light that is toxic masculine. Toxic masculine. Yeah, that's I guess kind of what I'm getting at. And the problem with that is what I do see though, there are a lot of female creators. It is starting to swing back. And I think that that that feminism that honestly started, I think, in a good place and then got way out of fucking control, kind of like kind of like Black Lives Matter did, too. I mean, a lot of those big movements start from a good-hearted, genuine, like a good cause, and then other again, big voices of these movements corrupt it, corrupt it, corrupt it, and then it becomes the wide umbrella that is no longer credible and it's and it's totally um corrupted. But I think I am glad to see there are a lot of female content creators calling it out. And what I wanted to get on with like when you're talking about women like the MeToo movement, I love the idea of women or hell, anybody who's been raped. I mean, that's a actually men do too. It happens. It's I mean it's not as often objectively, but it happens. But it's like kind of there's a joke my brother did, and it does play into this. My my brother Christopher used to carry around a man purse. And um, you know, it was it was pretty early on when that was really not a thing. A merce? A merce, yes. And my brother Michael, my oldest brother, I hope you guys watch this because we all fucking joke about it. Um, Michael was making fun of me. He said, What are you gonna do when you're walking down the street and some thief snags your merce and you're gonna say, Stop that man, he stole my merce. But I kind of I kind of use that because it's like it, I mean, if men were to come out and say, I was raped, nobody people are gonna laugh. I'm sorry. Or that's not gonna be taken too.
SPEAKER_03:They're gonna laugh, they're gonna call you a bitch.
SPEAKER_06:A pussy, like literally your ass was fucked like a pussy. I don't know, but anyway. Or you can't rape the willing. Or yeah, you can't rape. That's a bit that's the thing with that one. It's always you can't rape the willing. But what I'm saying is, like, I love the idea of a group of people who have suffered from a trauma, a truly traumatic experience, coming out together and being like, hey, this happened, making people aware and holding those people accountable. But then you get the motherfuckers who feed into it and like, oh, I can take advantage of that and get attention. And then you're corrupting the whole point. And I would say I understand the same thing about CPS. Because, and my wife will tell you this too, because she works in childcare, is that CPS gets bombarded with these bullshit claims that they can't tell what's a legit claim or not unless it's like the child is found on the side of the road beaten.
SPEAKER_08:Van a part of one of those, too.
SPEAKER_06:Right. So, I mean, that's the problem is you cannot fabricate this shit, but how do you vet it? That I don't know. You just have to trust that hopefully people are fucking genuine, because then when you have the legitimate cases of children getting abused in whatever way, of people getting sexually abused, domestic violence, all that stuff, men or women, by the way, it's not it's not just one sex, then you're you cannot help those who actually need it. Yeah. And that drives me up a little.
SPEAKER_08:And without pinning it on any one particular relationship, but you know, a couple of a couple of my relationships were there was violence towards me, and it would probably be the ones you'd least expect.
SPEAKER_06:So well, and I would say, you know, one thing my mom raised me with, and I I do not hear this a lot, love this woman for this one. You know what I'm going with? We have the same Yeah, is that okay, you don't hit a woman, but if a fucking woman hits you, you deck her back. My mom has always said that. She says, whether it's a man or a woman, if I mean, if someone hits you, fucking hit them back. I don't care who it is. Now, being raised in the society we are, even with moms, she she drilled that at that into me, like truly she did. But I gotta tell you, this would never in my ever happen. But if Katie starts wailing on me, I will not hit her. Even though I know, like, but I do know people who have done that. And I gotta be honest, it's like okay, what's Bill Burr's thing? What did she say to him? Yeah, what but what did she say to him foist, you know? It's like, fair enough. It's like, but that's the other thing is if a man hits a woman, you're in fucking prison.
SPEAKER_03:If a woman hits a man, it's like, oh, it was self self-whatever, or like, man up, man up, it's like, oh, you let your bitch hit you, or like it just turns into a situation where if she was beating up the man, and that man in turn hit her, you know, and she's the one calling the police, like, hey, he's beating the shit out of me. He gets arrested, booked immediately.
SPEAKER_07:It's crazy. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:And then he can tell the police, well, she's the one hitting me, like, I don't care. You hit a woman, you're out of here.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and it's like, you know, what's interesting is that by default, men are naturally quite a bit stronger than women. So women can well, well, well, and it takes one knock from us and they're and they're down. We can kind of just put a period on that situation, yet I know people who've come out pretty scathed from getting walloped by a woman who did kind of just put the period on it. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's it's not good for the man.
SPEAKER_08:I mean And it's like, what the fuck are you supposed to do with that? But no, the what I was gonna say earlier, but I I I certainly don't want to keep cutting him off because I really want him to get this story out. But you know, you're saying that even some female creators are coming out to to talk about men's issues and try to bring things more centrist again. I really hope that my son, you know, all of our all of our sons grow up in a world where that phrase comes back. If a girl hits you, hit her back. Yeah. It's well, if you think about it, yeah, and it's not like I'll just wait for the bitch to hit me and then I'll clock the sons, I will clock the fucking sense out of her. Not not that, but you're gonna have to choke a bitch. Maybe. Um, but what? Wayne, where the fuck? You've never heard that? That's Chapelle. No. You've heard that, right? Yeah, I've heard it. I'm just like, that was such a non-sequitur. That one caught me. Um but the but the um I mean the idea is rooted in uh Jordan Peterson conversation. Oh no. What? Do the impression is. I'm not gonna do the impression and bring out the tears and all that stuff. Um but he he's talking with a woman about how you know, if two men have a disagreement, we know that there's the underlying threat of physical violence. So we find a way to work it out. With a woman, it's not the same. Right. Because there isn't that balance, she can say any out-of-pocket thing she wants to say and be as emotionally mean as she wants to be without repercussion. And so there's never ever gonna be an even or level table to come to. You know, when they say, What do you bring to the table? Well, what she brings is pain. Emotional pain. Fucking emotional pain because torture, yeah. It because any time that there is conflict, you can't keep it in check. Now, if you even threaten verbally, you you might end up in jail. I mean, it's it's not a safe world for our sons. No, and that sucks. We we fight so hard to have a safe world for our daughters, we need to do the same for our sons. I genuinely hope that as we head back towards the middle Which seems to be happening, that it does, it becomes more normal, normalized for people to say, okay, but if two people, regardless of gender, right, if two people are having a disagreement, if one person steps across that physical line, that other person should be able to come back physically. Yeah. It sh I don't think there should be. Yeah, either way. Now, as a man, if a woman hits me, and because I'm so steeped in it, am I gonna just haul off and you know, swing for the fences? Yeah, I mean not. I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna grab her and try to subdue her and use my strength to stop. Yes, that's exactly what I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_03:I would do that. Yeah, okay. Like detain, like hey, chill up.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah. But that's the thing is like if you become physical, I should be allowed to use physical force to restrain within within reason within reason, you know. And that's the thing is like as and I'm gonna get myself in trouble. Go ahead, light up the comments. Please do. Uh as the as the stronger, more logic-based sex. You did it. I did it. Tony, you know. You're right, I did it. But I I should still be responsible for not going excessive with the force. Thank you. Okay. Okay. So I'm I agree with that guy. I feel like men should be able to emotionally regulate themselves enough that if somebody is physical with you, you put an end to it, not necessarily by two hits, me hitting you, you hitting the ground. Not that kind of force. You know, I've heard I forgot about that thing. I hit you, you hit the full bitch. Yeah. Yeah. So I I mean, uh there, I really do hope for our sons that that world becomes a reality.
SPEAKER_06:I I think it's coming, hopefully, unless some other big names get out there and taint it again.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:But um, so where are you at? How are you feeling about all this? You think it'll help your friend, okay? I mean, this good stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is good stuff. Yeah, I was gonna just chime in and say, Yeah, my friend's told my son. Like, he's raising him to be like, you know, if someone hits you or is uh, you know, physically aggressive with you, you ask them to stop. If they hit you again, you hit them back. Whether you're out in public, whether you're in school, like if you're in school and that happens, uh, you know, he's told him, you know, if you ask the child to stop and they don't, you punch them back. And you know, you might be in trouble. You might get in trouble at school, but you won't be in trouble at home.
SPEAKER_06:There it is.
SPEAKER_08:That's it. My dad used to say too. I I actually had a situation like that happen. And I I told him, I said, you know, you you may be in trouble at school, and if you gotta take your lumps, you gotta take your lumps. But know that you have my full support. And if they try to make you feel bad or say that you did something wrong, I'll go in there. I'll go in and set up straight.
SPEAKER_06:You know what's interesting though is think about it in like high school, guys would get into little brawls all the fucking time, and then we'd we'd be bros after. It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's like, hey, good hit there, buddy. I mean, it is the dynamic that we're we're we are more naturally physical roughhouses. Yeah, so I remember getting in scuffs with people, and it wasn't too serious.
SPEAKER_03:Well, a lot of it was just pushing and shoving, like, oh, do you?
SPEAKER_06:You tackle each other and like you know, that sort of thing. I've only got in one or two fist fights, which didn't go very well for the other person, but because I blacked out, but that's a whole other story. But um, what's interesting about that is guys are okay with that. We can kind of rough and tumble. I mean, how do we even play? We wrestle the shit out of each other, yeah. And how many times do we accidentally beat the tar? out of each other. I mean it happens all the time. You actually hurt the other one. It's like, oh, are you okay? It's like, yeah, man, it's okay. You know, I mean that's the vibe. But what's also interesting is the um okay I got a joke. There we go. What happens if a transgender hits the other one? Where's the line there?
SPEAKER_08:Is that a joke a a real joke or are you I don't know I don't know. What do you think? Who is the transgender hitting?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah that's what my question was well okay what if a transgender hits a transgender? Let him go at it.
SPEAKER_07:Who gets to call the police?
SPEAKER_06:Because nobody cat fight we don't know I'm not checking under the skirt. Let him go if if like okay that's funny.
SPEAKER_08:I don't know so we can go there. Now if transgender hits my son I'm gonna knock the makeup off you knock the makeup off the way I like that.
SPEAKER_06:Although he's bigger than me so he could do it. I ain't handle it. Yeah it's like flick um flick him across the room. But yeah that's that's all yeah I am glad to see that that they're all out of feet oh what do you got? You laughed something what do you got?
SPEAKER_03:No I'm laughing at the whole that the whole joke or question whatever that was I knew that would get you going.
SPEAKER_06:I love getting you going on that um got the guff scope got the yeah I I am glad to see that there are more female content creators coming out about equality among both and that's the thing is that there should be a lot more equality period right and that's what I think women certainly want but when you're where's the line drawn where equality matters I think we need to start having the conversation more about what's fair not what's equal because I don't think we're made equal that not like that that's a good that's a good way to put it yeah I no I really like fair for everyone yeah yeah I mean how who gets to decide what's fair but God government hasn't done a great job of it God the one you believe in? No don't get me on that okay guff you know where I'm at with that we've had that conversation please take over I know actually you know what on the subject of religion I'm not gonna rant about it because that will be endless. No let him well no that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. Oh okay so I know you you uh identify as a Christian correct yep so I think you and I have talked together that there have been moments when you've struggled you know kind of lost your way and came back um oh yeah is that especially for my friend yeah I I I imagine I imagine that because I mean what I think I think there's a lot of people who go through the faith roller coaster right but I wonder okay let's let's if your friend has told you let's bring him into this if he's told you I know you guys are like you know this and this oh we're yeah we're really tight yeah you're like that like like this and this um is he seeing the gesture do you see the gesture?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah but yeah I need two I need a fist to be satisfied um but seriously like doing the bro shocker got the two and then the tickle oh yeah yeah I forgot about the pink pinky out SpongeBob Pinky yeah we're pinky anyway tickle tickle the balls way for all right all right techniques I'm gonna have to bring them home um recommend to the WAF Katie can I tickle your balls it's like did you know what I learned on the podcast today we should try it um do you have a recipe for a blue waffle honey yeah then yeah that's where my name gets brought up look what I learned Guff was on the podcast he's like he's not coming over around our child anymore dude I came up you thought was funny do you know what a smurf slurp is that was funny right did you find it money it's gross I came up with a new term can you Matt can you can you think of what that might be swirp.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah what do you think that would be it's a sexual enlighten me I I know but enlighten me I will enlighten the world because I came up with a TM it's going on t-shirt back of the bottom Hui t-shirt yeah might be the logo a smurf slurp is when you eat out a blue waffle okay I I was thinking the first part I wasn't thinking blue waffle was that too far for you what were you thinking I was just thinking of a like a blue waterfall vagina like just smurping at it do your thing I can't fucking throw up my sinuses are all fucked up okay no he does the best fucking South Park throw up sound he's the best glad we all got talents if I wasn't so stuffy I'd be able to do it but well next episode hold up for the thinking we saw where were we we were talking about religion and he gets talking about blue waffles and you're so aggressive you better watch out he's about to donkey punch you through the fucking camera.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah um okay so you know like I said I think a lot of people go through that religious faith struggle roller coaster um I so your your friend you said does he identify as a Christian too technically technically yeah has did this cause him to struggle with faith or did he kind of was he able to lean on that what no he he's he struggled severely because his train of his train of thought was you know I asked for a family I wanted a loving wife I wanted you know family to be together as a unit like this is all I ever asked for this is all I ever wanted gone you know and it's like you know he he tell me what sucks is that a man that had you know trying to get his family involved in the church and try to live right and to turn around for his wife to leave that man that would that would have done every single thing possible for his family to be their their protector provider spiritual leader i all the above leave that man to go to another man that left his wife gave up on his wife his family and so you know that trajectory that downwards trajectory of losing faith and faith you know how do you get it back in progress fair enough TBD TBD gotcha well um that I don't know yet don't rant on rant I'm gonna go to rant I'm gonna go a little rant because I've been Tony's just like oh god get get comfy people I've been going on these Christianity rants obsessively all fueled by watching the all fueled by watching Mother by Darren Aronofsky have you seen that I've seen it once several years ago the one Jennifer Lawrence yes I remember it being fucked up that's probably why I haven't gone back and rewatched it it's incredibly fucked up but my God there are some okay but well does he understand the premise though do you remember the premise of it because part of the problem with like that film is that the imagery is so shocking the first time you watch it and I'm guilty of it too you don't pick up on a lot of what that fucking movie is saying.
SPEAKER_03:Isn't there like a lot of moving parts going on at the same time that's probably why I don't really remember much of it.
SPEAKER_08:So you do you don't really remember and it's okay if you don't because it was years ago it is basically go ahead you describe it best mean you're the oh well he's like oh shit yeah I thought you were gonna have him describe it back to you but no if you go back and watch it again watch it with the idea that it essentially lays out the Bible from the very beginning of creation Adam and Eve the tree pulling the rib out of Adam to you know the sacrifice Christ the Christ child is born they rip him to shreds and eat the flesh and drink the blood body and blood of Christ literally but there the the thing that's hard if you if you don't know because I've we've probably watched it three or four times each of us separately um but the thing that's really hard about that movie is that there's not a plot. It's a narrative it it is a narrative and if you look at it as oh my god that's a story from the Bible there's a story from the Bible complete parallels.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah and the imagery is like oh my it is it's upsetting not the right yeah it's it's uncomfortable for sure I'll probably I'll probably pull it up and watch it whenever it's on voodoo woo you got access I give it to all my buddies give it to your buddy get healthy come watch it with us again because we'll get another rant out of him yeah I'll give you the login to give him because he'd probably like yeah I got I got a rant um yeah I have a rant you know on his behalf too you know speaking because my rant will last until the battery runs out in this boy mate we know we we know how that would go no it's but speaking but speaking for him though the thing that I have an issue with is that uh he wants to try and get his reconnection with God back but at the same time he takes issue with her and this affair partner that she's with now they are all of a sudden born-again Christians go to church every Sunday they love what God has put in their lives and I'm thinking bullshit you know how you know I know you whatever you wherever your guys' stance are but you know speaking for me as a Christian that is not something God would condone that is not something God would give you that is something the devil Satan himself put into their fucking heads to commit that adultery I mean if and tear families apart because he hates marriages he doesn't like families so he tore that shit up and to love something that that entity gave them make that makes Christian or not which I am not and I've kind of hate it right now actually um that's still fundamentally bullshit from what Christianity stands for from a non-believer but go ahead.
SPEAKER_08:Well all I was gonna say is I mean I don't I don't go deep with Christianity I I did in the past I but even if you have a a surface level understanding of Christianity you've heard of this little thing called the Ten Commandments not important to the story.
SPEAKER_06:So I think you know another 15 being right we had to throw one at that there were these 15 10 10 10 commandments but but the idea that they would say you know that God brought them together I I mean I think there might be actual literal written black and white word that says no we didn't exactly and that's the problem I have speaker for my friends yeah and that's the problem I have speaker for my friend it's like how can they go out there destroy like homewreck each other's families destroy each other's families and say that God gave that to them no no no well how many how many how many uh so-called Christians are posers anyway um uh I think it's probably it's probably a front like clout probably on social media that's exactly Sunday morning church time it's like get the fuck out of here like kiss my ass church they're either using it probably to say you know we've repented or it's just a ruse to look like oh no we're good people but he but even inside the the the pen the repentance right like well we're born again the story would still have to go this this relationship was born of sin but we're born again okay that tracks okay I wonder do you know if that's how they would approach it I don't know if he's talked to you about that do they approach it as if oh we admit we were fucking terrible fuckheads but now we come to Christ yeah yeah basically yeah is exactly they can go get crucified right next to that motherfucker because do I get to tell my Jesus and hooker joke again very nicely very nicely put is exactly I guess how they would perceive that hey uh Tony we really fucked up but you know we're better now we're better now we took the Jesus rum or the Jesus wine juice yeah and we're better now God literally I'm like huh no go ahead go ahead no I was gonna say but I told my buddy I'm like you know you know what these two people are capable of doing they know what they're capable of doing behind someone else's back so it's like power to them it's like when one gets bored of the when one gets bored of the other you better start stalking their phone both through the phone or doing something.
SPEAKER_03:I hope that happens it'll happen I hope both of their fucking current bullshit relationships and two people that have a long history of cheating two people that have a history of like longevity of cheating it's like good luck it's gonna happen again I hope it does and this time I hope it crushes both of their souls well I mean my buddies my buddies told me that he's told her one of these days if it's not this person it might be someone else but one of these days you're gonna get hurt the way that you hurt me and then you'll finally know what it feels like to have someone rip your fucking heart out.
SPEAKER_08:I hope so that's karma that's that's the piece I was talking about having been on both sides you know I'm born again too love me um nobody but no having been the No one will ever love you again I know it's it's I wrestle with it every day in the mirror for me it's enough but but having been both sides of it it really it really truly you you have to get broken for it to really register what you're doing to people. That's true.
SPEAKER_06:So it it'll happen even if even if you know your friend's wife goes out and does it again she'll start to see the the wreckage it it it does show up both sides you do you do fucking figure it out eventually can I can I throw something out there no this is just I'm going to though okay this is just just a thought j just here's my final thought oh okay no it's it's definitely not uh here's a concept I just want you to consider it what if you guys or you go fuck his ex-wife and like demolish that relationship and then back out no I don't know why not I've said I've I've seen photos of these people and I it's baffling like trailer part trash is how I would view them like like I haven't seen this woman but you paint a good picture I can see her now all involved over there like no no I I that was a horrible joke I apologize there's a reason I stopped dating in Cambi sorry Cambi my I have friends who live in Canada crickets that was harsh no I have friends who live in Kenya well I won't be dating they don't watch this fucking podcast either so we can shit on Cambians I think the crickets are still going for Nick Nick demonic crickets no those relationships you just end up putting her back where you found her so just stay out of the trailer park. That was that was meant to be funny I'm sorry that was not funny it was horrible basically can someone uh can someone uh get some holy water please and a good whip and uh what a whip yeah did the whip do oh I was going a different direction sorry yeah you're doing like okay we're not gonna go there Tony tell your Jesus hooker joke oh um you'll find this funny guff you will Jesus hooker yeah what's the difference between Jesus and a hooker but the look they give you when you're nailing them oh shit call yourself a Christian motherfucker you're just laughing at all right do the other one our our favorite candy one okay here's one more Christian joke for you what's Jesus's least favorite candy what MM's do you know why he didn't see the gesture they fought through those little horses I see it yeah what the fuck what the fuck would they actually fought through though with all the blood like wouldn't the blood just kind of just they can't but yeah but it might actually screw up their their logo their their
SPEAKER_08:Their slogan melts in your mouth, not in your hands. Ah, but if there's blood present.
SPEAKER_03:Blood makes everything better.
SPEAKER_06:And you know what? What else is bullshit? Eminem's hardcore melt in your fucking hands. Yeah, they do. And they do not melt in your mouth. Wait, why do these taste like pennies? No, wait, wait, wait, no. Why do these taste like wine? Wine? Jesus. Water to wine. Yeah, that's better. His blood is water. That's better. I just got to go with that.
SPEAKER_01:No, that was better.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Okay. I love that family guy joke. He's in he's in church. He's like, is that really the blood of Christ? Yes. Man, that guy must have been wasted 24 hours a day. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, shit. Changed to actual wine. Wow. Wow. Wow. So any any other moving parts to this story that you feel like listeners ought to hear? Yeah, whatever. Yeah, we can keep going or I mean, in uh so in the aftermath, has like what kinds of things have you seen out of him as far as like how he's coping, how he's finding his own growth? What what is his path?
SPEAKER_03:Like Um, I think for now he's taking it just day by day, just trying to heal, you know? And there's good days, there's bad days. And he told me on the bad days, it's like sometime sometimes he'll he'll quote, he gave me a quote from uh Better Call Saul from Mike Ehrman Trout. I don't know if you guys watched it. Have you watched Better Call Saul?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, on my list.
SPEAKER_03:There's a quote from Mike Ehrman Trout. It's like, you know, one of these days you're gonna wake up, you're gonna eat your breakfast, you're gonna brush your teeth, and then you're gonna realize that you can forget that your thought never came to you. I can't remember I'm paraphrasing, but that's actually pretty powerful.
SPEAKER_08:It's the time heals all wounds thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, and so it'll be those days, like they wake up and not think of it, not even have any thought of it, but then there are days that you know you may not be thinking about it, but then you'll have like maybe like a mental trigger, visual trigger, just out of the blue, can't control it, and that could you know set the rest of his day off just have a horrible day because that one little thought, that one image of something.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Do you know? Yeah, he has, but he's not ready because he doesn't want to potentially find a rebound because he's not healed himself and heard somebody else. Yeah, so I'm gonna do fair for someone and not be fair for himself. So that's actually he also has a child to deal with, so he's okay with just him and his son for now.
SPEAKER_06:Doesn't need that is incredibly wise, mature. Wow, I mean, to have the because like I know you said you rebounded some. Some? Okay, fair enough. But like, but when you did that, did you ever have, I mean, the realization that I'm it I'm not fair to the other person, I'm fucking this person up, and even it's myself. That's pretty damn insightful.
SPEAKER_08:That one took me a little longer, honestly. Um, I I would say probably in the last two relationships, I've gotten to the no nonsense part where it's like this is what I am, you know, I'm still working on this, this is you know, the transparency piece, like all of that. It really does make things a lot easier when you do finally get out there ready to date. But I I would say right now is probably one of the first times I've sort of backed away from it for like purposely to save other people in yourself. Well, to really truly focus on myself and my son and make sure that I am healthy and finally get back to your drumming.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, no, it's it's happening. It is finally fucking happening. Jesus Christ!
unknown:Fuck!
SPEAKER_08:Um it's the way he'll look at you if you nail him. If I fuck hims.
SPEAKER_06:They should make like you know the MM machines that like you prank the dial and they come out? Yep. Oh my god, you knew where I was going with that. Oh, sorry. No, continue. I was so funny. Because I was saying you twist Jesus' nips and they come, they just fall out of his oh my god. I'm sorry. Uh I see it in your face.
SPEAKER_04:He's like, that was shame on you. Shame on your cow.
SPEAKER_07:Shame on you, shame on your cow.
SPEAKER_06:Um you brought shame upon your home. But what I was gonna say, honestly, about that, it sounds like he learned that pretty quick, and that is really yeah, that's ungodly, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Faster than me. But the the yeah, the thing that he's told me too is that where where he struggled coming to that realization was is that truly how he felt, or was he trying to revert into the old pattern that maybe she'll come back? Oh but he's figured it out like there's no way in hell I could ever let that toxicity with that history and that baggage to ever step foot back into his life ever again.
SPEAKER_08:You know what that sounds like that sounds like self-respect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So that's how he was able to figure that out. That's awesome. You know, you know, I've asked him many times like if she ever did try to come back, would you let her? Fuck no, is the answer.
SPEAKER_06:And you actually believe that he you actually believe now that's a core like thing of his.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:1,000%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:1,000, 1,000. There's a point of no remaining. So he'll be he said he so he'll be there for his son's mother if you know uh if she needed like positive encouragement, you know, uh from a parenting standpoint. Um but uh on a personal relationship, no, never again. That's how he could be that's how he could be cordial and co-parent the way that he should. Because those personal feelings, you know, you can set those aside for the child.
SPEAKER_06:I gotta tell you, I mean, everything you've told me about him, he's a he's a phenomenal father. And I mean, with everything he's been through, he is his child's um safety. He is his child's leader. Where where would his son be without his dad? And I gotta tell you, you know, I've mentioned in the past that having being passively suicidal and those things, that one thing I can always anchor to myself is my child. Is that um if I get really dark, and I I've had those moments since he's been born for sure, there is an anchor of fuck everything else, no matter what, I have to be here for him. And I know you mentioned that he had that thing where he, you know, similar to what Tony went through. And I hope he does see that no matter what, especially in his situation, his son needs him.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's a close, close times where my friend has tried to take his life. Uh shortly after the divorce, he told me that he was coming home from a concert and then realizing that the whole world like his whole world was just falling apart. It was done. Driving home from a concert, got his vehicle up to uh 100 miles per hour on the country road, taking his seatbelt off, it was gonna run right into a lighting pole, and taking the seatbelt off was you know done on purpose so there's no safety harness to hold him back, you know. But at the last split second, he realized he has a son to look after, look after, and take care of. So he pumped the brakes, pulled over to the side of the road, and cried it out for about 10-15 minutes, get his thoughts and everything put together, and then go back home.
SPEAKER_06:And that's the thing, man. I mean, in in his familial situation, obviously his mother's not very stable and probably doesn't have a lot of other stability to latch on to, and his dad is that for him, and I think always will be his core for that. So there's something to that. And what were you gonna say? I feel like you're gonna say something.
SPEAKER_08:Uh just saying, and you know, when when when you have a mommy and a daddy raising a kid, you know, father shows you how to be a man, mother shows you what woman to fall in love for, like to look for, to fall in love with, right? Like that's what we end up growing up and seeking.
SPEAKER_10:Right.
SPEAKER_08:As a single parent, and this is just my experience, I feel like you have to do a little bit of both. You know, if you have that kind of relationship with your son or with your daughter, you you know, I've my son has been here to see all of you know learned the fuck-ups. He's been here to group observations. Yeah. And we've had some pretty adult conversations about you know, um, so he he has learned from some of my mistakes, and uh, and I think he'll hopefully grow up a little healthier starting out than I was, and wiser. And and wiser, exactly. Because I think he'll know that there are certain boundaries that we don't let people cross. And we don't we don't push aside our own needs for someone else's needs repeatedly. Now you can do it some, like you have to take care of your partner, but if you get to a point where you're starting to feel that resentment, and he and I have talked about that, if you start to feel resentment, it's time to talk. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And even even I've been through that a little bit in in my marriage. I mean, yeah. We've had that conversation too. Yeah, we've had it too. I mean, there are points where and I don't want to go into much detail because honestly, Katie and I are in a fantastic place, and we've always gotten no matter what's hit us, we we've always gotten through it. But there was a period where needs on both sides weren't being met, and probably especially mine, and you know, you establish what needs to be done and you you make those adjustments, and we've always been able to do that for each other. There's certainly been times that my mental health has been so shitty that she's had to take more on. Vice versa. You know, when she was pregnant, I I made a ton of sacrifices because it does ebb and flow depending on the situation. But I will say that in regards to your your friend's uh kiddo, the good thing is is his dad has been through a lot, whether childhood, whether relationships, all that stuff. And he can guide his son on like what not to look for in a woman without bashing his mother. You can do that gracefully. You can do that gracefully.
SPEAKER_08:Yep.
SPEAKER_06:You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Um, you don't have to say, you know, well, your mother did this and she's a fucking bitch. So you don't you don't even necessarily have to do that. I mean, he could easily, and plus kids are so damn inquisitive, and they're way more intelligent than we give them credit for, and pick up on things. We are, yeah. I mean, I see Max picking up on things even at 11 months old. I'm like, how the fuck, kiddo?
SPEAKER_03:Like their brain is a sponge and they're just so everything out.
SPEAKER_06:It is, and even if they don't understand it at their age, it it processes. And like I said, I think his son, his dad, is going to be incredible for him. Yeah. Because his dad has suffered so much throughout his life, he can give him the life he never had and the direction and the wisdom that he didn't have, that he had to learn through his pain. Why wouldn't you why wouldn't you share that with your son in a way that could help him?
SPEAKER_03:And my friend can also teach his son to not be like that piece of shit neighbor guy that his mom is with now. That's like that is not how you treat your wife. Like, you know, you don't go out and you you do not commit, you don't go cheat on your wife. If that is your wife and you have children together, you are there to be with that family, to guide that family and be a unit together.
SPEAKER_06:You know, and that's a that's a commitment, you know. I mean, once you marry somebody and you make the commitment to have a child, you need to do your damnedest to honor that. And I'm not saying people don't fall short, and it's not exactly easy all the time, depending on what the situation is.
SPEAKER_03:But you know, teaching to be to be a man and know how to treat a woman and learn from his father's mistake, and you you know when to speak up and you know when you need to put your foot down on certain things in a respectful manner. You know, you don't have to don't go lash out, be a complete go doucherie on him, but you know.
SPEAKER_08:No, but he said, show um you know, teach your son, you know, how to treat a woman. But the everything else he said after that was how a woman should treat you or what you can allow. That too. And I think that that's the part that was missing, kind of old school. Yes, you know, and I I hope that that as we all come more towards a centrist view. That can organically become a thing. That that that that that that goes both ways, you know. I mean that we teach our daughters how to be good women, but also how to take care of a man. There, I mean, very different needs, but right now I think that part's missing altogether.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, so it is, and you know what? It can start with that's a whole new thing. It can start with my child's generation, your friend's child's generation. So your son, you instilled that in him. So it's not to I I would argue a lot of my nieces and nephews, I'm not gonna give names, but have been taught that as well. Well, a couple of them haven't.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. Well, him and his friends discovered Andrew Tate for a minute. I was like, look, okay, that that's some clown shit. Oh no. Like, yes, there's some good points in it, but he goes a little overboard. A little? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Isn't he the one who is in prison now, gentlemen? Is that Tate?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, he him and his brother were in prison for a minute. For a few. I love that.
SPEAKER_06:And that's the problem with kids, is they're not experiencing the world to know when that is too much.
SPEAKER_09:Or like, right, hey, hey, uh, you know, he's funny and like he's got some points, but you know, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:They don't know how to discern what's fucking radical versus what has some logic to it. And I would argue, damn near most things have that, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Um the kids are so young and innocent, they can't, you know.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah. Well, and you think you gotta think developmentally our brains aren't even 24, 25, I think. That's when it finishes is when you finally get the last bits of development and understand. Um, but even like abstract things like love, commitment, trust, those things don't you you can't understand what those things are till you can't early. No, but what I'm saying is your like your brain doesn't even conceive of those abstracts so early on. It's very true.
SPEAKER_06:And yeah, that's yeah. Good fucking conversation, guys. I know that went all over the place, which is our brand. It was right on brand. Right on brand. So um what on no brand? Like there's no brand. That's our brand. I thought it might be fun, since we're on this topic, to end. Oh boy. How would we raise a daughter? How would we raise a daughter? Since we're talking about, you know, we I mean you and I have sons. How would we raise a daughter? And you can chime in on this, buddy.
SPEAKER_03:Like, how would you raise a daughter? Because we huh raise a daughter. Are we talking about transgenders or no, no, no, no? Just so we can raise a son.
SPEAKER_06:No actual I am saying okay, I am saying if our significant others gave birth to a biological vagina-bearing woman, girl, fuck, I don't know.
SPEAKER_08:This gender woman. Yeah. I don't know that.
SPEAKER_06:Um, anyway. So what would we instill in that? Because I can say I was terrified. You said you wanted a girl, right?
SPEAKER_08:I did.
SPEAKER_06:I wanted a daughter. Um, but what I was gonna say is I was terrified to have a daughter just because of all the bullshit we talked about. Like all of it. It's kind of a double standard, but it's because I want to protect her from all of it, because that is the society that she's going to grow up in.
SPEAKER_08:And that's the thing. I mean, having not raised a daughter, I can't speak from experience. All I can do is say what I believe. Right. Um, but it would, I mean, fathering a daughter, you very similar to the way a mother looks at her son, you know, and we as husbands go, wait, what about me? I feel like it would be. I know you don't experience that on any level, right? I can't get over it. So good. You're so good. Um but you know, I I feel like it it would be that purest love. It would absolutely be like, what do you need? I will get it. I will make a world for you that just bows down. And like you would want to create that world for your daughter. But when realism starts to Come in, I would very much need for her to understand once she was an appropriate age, obviously. That's a challenge too. Yeah. But understand that yes, yes, Queen, that she can she can be an independent woman. That that that is absolutely a thing. If she chooses to be with a man, then here are kind of the here's the cards. We have to figure out how to play. Right. You know, there are things that men need that only women supply. There are things that women need, the ones that'll be honest with you, that only men supply. And there I feel like if there's an even flow of them, that yeah, the the even flow.
SPEAKER_07:Even flows for that.
SPEAKER_08:Um hair, float in. Get your ural on. But no, the I think that there I think that there should be very similar topics from raising a boy to a girl, but I think you almost have to teach them in reverse. Not like that. Whereas, you know, we teach little boys uh rough and tumble, and you're look, learn how to be in your body, and oh look, you can be strong and you can be smart and you can be all the you gotta start. Look, you can be pretty. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not funny. You can be strong, you can be resilient, you can be all these things, you know, that are very similar things. So you have to start from that base, but I think as they grow, it it crisscrosses. Yeah, you're right. Now you're old enough, you're interested in girls, let's talk about girls. Now you're interested boys are interested in you, let's talk about boys, shall we? And I think there needs to be an education that, you know, at least on the girls side, goes beyond men only want one thing. Because that's not true. If you if so not true. It it isn't, it's fucking not true. Honestly, it's not true. Well, let's let's start with. I am gonna say this though. If you push a man to it, yeah, that's the only thing you're gonna be good for to a man. That's a good point. I can I can purchase, I can learn to do, I can, I can take care of myself in every other way. If you push me to that, yeah. Yeah, you can reduce it to that, but you can also take care of that and so much more because there is that relationship. Same way, same thing goes for a man. Yeah, agreed, you know, and and getting, you know, the part that's hard for men because unfortunately, we are raised to push the emotion down, right? For the most part, rub some dirt on it, get back out there, you pussy.
SPEAKER_01:We we do have to cry.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think some of that is going away, but I th I think we need to do a better job of saying, okay, those things are natural. You have to regulate, you know, the world. I think most of us learn way too late that the world does not give fucks. You know, you the only person that's gonna care about you is you, especially for men.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Right? So you have to do a really good job of that from the beginning. But I think if you treat yourself like a king, so to speak, you're gonna attract the woman that's looking for the king. You know what I mean? Yeah, true. So it and I think you instilled the opposite, you know, treat yourself like a queen, you're gonna find the guy that's looking for the queen. Yeah. So I that's my take on it. Now I don't know jack shit. So your turn.
SPEAKER_04:I got nothing to add. I think you covered everything.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, sorry. Somebody should have cut me the fuck off. No, I want to add something.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, you know, I've always got something. He's got something. Go ahead. Go ahead, buddy. I mean, we're interviewing you, right?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. You go ahead.
SPEAKER_06:Think you're in. I think we're interviewing you. I always forget. Well, this way we give him the last word. We'll give you the last word. Um, I don't even know if I should bring this up. Honest to God, I don't. You're going to anyway. Of course I am. I just have to preface it with that. Um, like I I'm hesitating. Like, oh, this is tough for me to bring up, but I want to. So I'm going to. I'm just kidding. It's so easy to bring up.
SPEAKER_08:Um I'm going to put the pretenses out there, but then I'm going to tell you that they're free tense. It's the brilliance of it, right? It is.
SPEAKER_06:It really is a perfect tactic. It's so good. It's worst tactic ever. Okay, so um right on break. I uh I do not I'm gonna I will preface this with this. I have no problem with homosexual, any of that stuff. I don't. And I believe myself that I think people probably are born that way. And this is not to start a debate between the three of us, unless you want to. But my no, we need that. He needs sleep, man. He's sick. What I was gonna say. Yeah, we I'm over here in Salah, and I look over and he's just oh well, that's the podcast. Um, catch him over there sleeping. One thing I think we have to be careful about, and this is speaking as a heterosexual person, but I don't mind exposing Max to the fact that that homosexuality is a thing. Okay. But as soon as you push that narrative, right, and the big thing is like the research shows if a boy wants to dress up in girl clothing as a boy, you don't put that on them as you're fucking queer. You don't do that because they have no perspective of that. Oh, this is a pretty color. If they play with Barbie dolls, like legit, it's not a problem until you name it as that's fucking gay.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Because, okay, I don't know if I've ever revealed this. Welcome to the podcast. There was a very short period, about a six-month to a year period. Guff is probably gonna make you uncomfortable, that I wondered if I wasn't homosexual. It was a very short period, probably from age 11 to 12 range. You know, you're just starting to develop. I found some kids at school attractive. Guff, you I masturbated you so many nights.
SPEAKER_05:I hope not uncomfortable at all now.
SPEAKER_08:No, but honestly, that just sounds like gagging now.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe it was. Circle jerk, everybody.
SPEAKER_06:Um, cup the balls. But the reason I share that, and it's not exactly something I'm even that insecure to share, I'm soundly hetero now, and even if I wasn't, whatever. But what I'm saying is, let's say Max grows up and he he is a homosexual. There's nothing wrong with that. Uh unfortunately, I feel like he's going to have a struggle just because of how a lot of society still looks upon homosexuals. So there's going to be an inherent struggle with that that he's going to have to deal with. But I will support him wholly. I will claim him as my son. Um, I do struggle with some of the trans stuff, but that's a whole other thing. And there is a valid reason that's not, you know, meant to be an offensive thing. But the problem I struggle with is when you are labeling things to a child that are innocent to them, that do not have a you're labeling it as a connotation of homosexuality. But I will say when I went through that little, that small period where I wondered, I was very, I was kind of bicurious. I never did anything with a boy, hell, I'd done anything with a girl at that point. So I didn't know. I was very confused. The voices in my head were fucking with me too. I gotta say that was a factor. And I remember having this conversation with my dad. And my dad is not really a fan of a lot of the homosexual thing. He struggles with that. Um, it's not like he hates him, he's not against him, it's just he'll even mention that if I had grown up to be homosexual, he would struggle with that. And I don't think he'd mind me saying that.
SPEAKER_08:Just because Well, that's probably more generational than anything.
SPEAKER_06:It is. And honestly, if I'm honest, the only reason I hope Max isn't is because of the struggles he would have. That's it. But here's my thing is that we had this conversation, and honestly, it was a very open conversation. He was very uncomfortable, but he really helped me see that you know what? You have to organically come to this yourself. He said, I'm not gonna label you as a queer, I'm not gonna label you as anything. Thanks, Dad. Thanks for not labeling me as a little queer, dad. But seriously, like he actually handled it great. He said, you know what? He, I mean, he didn't even say back then, he said, I do want my son to be hetero. Like, I want that. But he did say, which I thought was brilliant, is that you do have to organically come to this yourself. He said, you know, you I can't tell you what you are, you can't let anybody tell you what you are. So what I'm getting at with this whole thing is that if you are a homosexual or hetero or any of it, you have to organically come to that, and you can't be led one way or the other.
SPEAKER_08:And I think that does happen quite a bit. And I think I to speak somewhat to that, I think if more people were a little better aware of brain development and what stages that is actually a conscious thought, like you're talking about little That's a little bit more.
SPEAKER_06:You're gonna put it in more of a but yes.
SPEAKER_08:But I mean, it doesn't you're not thinking in gender before a certain age. And so if an ad if an adult labels it as such, you are influencing, and that is probably not what you're that that's what you're trying to like. You can't influence it's just like get religion's the same way.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I mean, seriously, my wife and I have talked about this. Her family is incredibly Christian, most of my family is devout Christian. I'm not, and one thing that I have to say is that I will not push Max away from it. He's gonna grow up in the church. We live next to a church, it's a wonderful community. I love that community. I love the people there. Do I praise their God? No, I don't. But I do go to the church some because of the community. I mean, if they found out that, I'd probably be nailed to the cross outside of it. Give them a look. Give them a look. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. But what I'm saying with that going to hell. Oh, we're already there, buddy. So what I'm saying is just like sexuality, I think with religion, I think actually it's a little different because I think religion has some good morals and I think religion has some good teachings. So I will never avoid that, but I will never shove religion down that boy's throat. And if any family member does, they're gonna get fucking riemed about it. Because just like sexuality, and you and I even talked, you have to find your road to spirituality. I would argue you have to let a child do that too.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_06:And I think you expose, you don't force.
SPEAKER_03:Well, the thing with homosexuality with children is that maybe they do figure out at a young age which way they're gonna go in life, and they want to make sure they have that validation and love that it's okay. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean maybe religion can play the same part in that, but that's kind of my thought. I feel like a lot a lot of times, like maybe 10, 20, 30 years ago, maybe uh a boy got to his teens or whatever, realized like, hey, I might be homosexual, but was afraid to speak out and say anything because they wouldn't get the disapproval, disapproval from uh a parent or a family member or society. Friends, what society in general, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And I am glad that is becoming more acceptable, and I like that.
SPEAKER_03:Like going forward with like my my friend's child, like yeah, I mean it's like if the the child they have to figure it out themselves, and you can't force it one way or or the other. Like same with the same with religion, you know? Yeah, you have one and let them figure it out, and love them no matter what.
SPEAKER_06:Absolutely, and that's actually kind of the moral of it all. Love them no matter what, and I think expose, show them what's out there, don't force it on them. Show them Pornhub, show them Antichrist, show them, you know, um, show them the videos where they're chopping off the heads of the No, you're being silly now.
SPEAKER_03:Two girls in one cup.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, they're classic. I did watch that. Did you ever watch that? Years ago. You did you sit through the whole damn thing? I sure did. Yeah. I remember uh Ryan and Paul, I think it was Ryan and Paul challenged me to do that. Or we all challenged ourselves, and of course they made it too right when you see the ice cream cup, uh they ducked out, and I was just I remember sitting there like now I'm hungry.
SPEAKER_03:Well, no, my thought was when I watched it, I'm like, is this real? Like oh, it was. I know, I know it was, but at the same, you know, the thing is at shock value of watching it, and it's like, is this real? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And by the way, I know you're like me that very you can be shocked, but you're not gonna turn away. It's like a training.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna see how this is.
SPEAKER_06:I'm gonna poison my fucking mind and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00:Um I started, I'm gonna finish it.
SPEAKER_08:Yep, that's right. And uh YouTube are the ones looking for corn. Is that real? Oh, corn.
SPEAKER_06:But like what's funny is like um I just think of a remember being the only one who who would watch it. And I got so ringed for that.
SPEAKER_03:They didn't like remake, they didn't remake the video, but instead they just eat a bunch of Taco Bell or white castle.
SPEAKER_06:Yes, I do remember that. So don't sort of like put milk and one of my favorite YouTube sticks back then, and it was pretty common, is the reaction videos to that. They like have their grandmothers like, hey grandma, sit down and watch this. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_08:The best reaction videos were when that came out. I I gotta say, on the two girls one cup topic, that's the perfect segue. So, how would you raise a daughter?
SPEAKER_06:He already said he said he said he would raise themselves on shit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I yeah, I mean, I yielded my time to Tony because he said he said it all.
SPEAKER_08:You didn't I just felt like that was the perfect segue, though.
SPEAKER_04:Hey, I took it into top that I was right here, like man, I thought this man's wise. Like, I can't top that.
SPEAKER_06:He is wise and powerful. I'm done talking first. I'll talk first. I'll talk first. It's great. You should talk first. I love setting the tone for BS and you guys.
SPEAKER_04:I'm very doped up on medicine over here. So I'm here for the ride.
SPEAKER_08:I just want to say I am so grateful that that you still followed through on the interview. Um, you certainly didn't have to. Thank you so very much. Yeah. Um, but I very much look forward to the in-person. I think that we we gotta do part two.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, as soon as you're healthy and we get time, I mean, there's no we'll get it fucking scheduled. Like, let's ride this train, let's ride the lightning.
SPEAKER_08:Um we might have found our thruple.
SPEAKER_06:Ew, threezies. Ew, threezies. Oh, do your do your thing. You're good at the gay voice.
SPEAKER_00:What which one? Which one do you want me to do?
SPEAKER_07:I didn't know there were multiples, so throw them out. Fuck what?
SPEAKER_04:I was thinking, I was thinking, I was thinking maybe the South Park one. Yes. Is Tony familiar with that episode?
SPEAKER_08:Doubt it. Doubt it. I used to watch it, but it was back in the heyday. I watched it maybe the first year.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, well, I don't know. There's an episode where they gotta check inside people's assholes before they go take a shit or something.
SPEAKER_04:So for assholes. Yeah, like TSA. Excuse me, sir. I just need to check inside your ass home. Some big fat black woman.
SPEAKER_07:Sir, excuse me, sir.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, she has like this fucking flashlight. She's like, sir, I just need to check inside your asshole. Check inside your asshole.
SPEAKER_07:You do some of the best good voices.
SPEAKER_06:I wish you're inside my ass. I wish my voices sounded just like that. And talked about checking my voice.
SPEAKER_03:What was that game? What was that game we were playing last time I was over at your house? We're trying to think of words or something.
SPEAKER_06:I was like, man, yeah, we're playing Survey Scramble Jackbox, and we kept putting in the most outlandish shit.
SPEAKER_04:Like, that's not available. Well, I was like, well, come up, voices. I'm heading like making something useful.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, right. Give me some worst shit we were gonna do.
SPEAKER_06:It's like we're playing Jackbox games, you know, where you you know what they are, right? Yeah, Nick's got them. Oh my god, I love them. We play them. We need to play them and record it.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, we should do another one. Um I know I could get him on that episode. Nick? Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Amanda's friend. Oh, the Born of the Marrier. But one of the he had this was him. You've come up with some of the best fucking skit ideas, which we gotta fucking do them.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but he's like, I wish my voices would do something helpful, like, help me win fucking jackbox games. Like, you're looking for the most fucked up answer. Let's get it out there.
SPEAKER_06:And fucking great. I mean, what a brilliant idea.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, what was that one idea we had? Uh something about that that that movie of Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence.
SPEAKER_06:I told him about that one.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, we can do it right now. It's like the one person we went. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And like he wakes her up, and it's like, what if he woke her up and she was the schizophrenic one? Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_04:He's like, he didn't go through the bio or anything, just happens to wake this person up. It's like, motherfucker.
SPEAKER_07:You woke up. God damn it, the one fucking bitch I wake up.
SPEAKER_04:The captain wakes up and is like, Who's this person you woke up? Oh, it's a schizophrenic. It's like the whole ship's coming down now.
SPEAKER_07:They killed everyone on the fucking ship. What's wrong with you? It's like she was fought and killed us all. They'll kill us all.
SPEAKER_06:I know it totally goes against uh what we're trying to do. You're welcome to beat the mental health out of where we promote the idea that the mentally ill will kill everyone.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we're like three hours deep in this podcast. So if they made it this far.
SPEAKER_08:The funny part is I didn't even hear that. I was too busy thinking that would be. I mean, the guy is always gonna pick the hottest one, even if she's fucking nuts. That's what we're saying. Oh, wow. Okay, you took it a different direction.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah, your ex was very attractive. There's been a couple. You've had some very attractive exes, but I'm talking about your ex-wife, too. Oh. She was hot. Oh, yeah. There's a reason she had me duped. They get us. They they they let us fuck here. I'm gonna come up with this saying. They let us fuck the pussy, then they fuck with our mind. TM. Is that pretty good? No.
SPEAKER_03:Then they move on to the next.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. God damn it. Yeah, then they move on to the next. Well, oh my god. You know what? Three hours in, and that was some good fucking conversation, and we gotta save some for the next. I love the idea of doing jackbox game jackbox games recording that at the end. That would be fun. But anyway, my friend, that was so much fun. You're probably the most fun guest we've had because of the interaction. We've had some great input and things, so not dogging any other guests, but your your personality. He's on brand. You're on brand with us, like 100%.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm not feeling 100%.
SPEAKER_06:Oh no. What do you like when you're feeling good? Oh, it'll be awful.
SPEAKER_03:Pretty much how our conversations go when we're not being recorded.
SPEAKER_06:Well, next time we're gonna fucking record it for everyone to hear.
SPEAKER_03:I know, because you know how I don't know how many great ideas we've had. We're just like, what if we write this shit down?
SPEAKER_09:Well, that's what when you were over the house, I'm like, we should record this shit, damn it.
SPEAKER_06:And we didn't, of course. But anyway, um, awesome talking to you. I love I'm glad your friend was so open to allow you to share that. Hopefully it benefits him, and we will allow him to, you know, watch it and make sure he's comfortable, um, even though he wasn't named or anything. But these are sensitive topics and they need to be handled with grace and comfort. So um I'll send you the episode so you can share it with him because we always do that. Uh yeah, disclaimer to all guests, we uh if you ever show up on here, we always share the episode with you before we post it. Always, always. Whatever is shared on this podcast, the guest needs to be 100% confident and comfortable in putting out into the world. Because right now, 40,000 fucking people are gonna hear it. Right. And you know what? By the time you're a guest, it's hopefully gonna be double, triple, whatever that. So anyway, thank you so much, Guff. Um do you want to share? Do you want to share do you want to share your TikTok, Insta? And I'll share the link, but what's it under?
SPEAKER_03:It's pretty much just under my name, Josh Guffy. So I don't have any cool fake names. Superhero names.
SPEAKER_08:You don't have it needs to trademark the Guff or something. You need to, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, you could be stuffy Guffy right now. Stuffy Guffy. Stuffy Guffy.
SPEAKER_08:That just makes me think of snuffle up against all.
SPEAKER_06:So you're at Josh Guffy on like TikTok and everything?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, pretty much everything.
SPEAKER_06:And Guffy is, spell it, please, G-U-F-F-E-Y, correct?
SPEAKER_03:Yep. G-U-F-F-E-Y. Cool. Not goofy, not goofy.
SPEAKER_07:Guffey. I need to check inside your ass.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:That's another funny skid idea, just going around like doing that to people and get killed. Anyway, um great to have you. I will definitely include the links um to your socials in the uh description and all that good stuff. We will absol fucking lutely have you on again. And certainly you and I'll do a couple episodes um together if you'd like to do that too. I certainly would. So hurt both show. I don't know. You might be pretty open about things with each other, so maybe. I do think we need to do a three a three episode and show people what a circle jerk is. I don't know about showing. Well keep the camera this high and just like just all of us.
SPEAKER_04:A game of uh shoot the cookie.
SPEAKER_06:Have you heard that one? That's a new one. Oh, he you said something he doesn't know.
SPEAKER_03:It is basically like a like a circle jerk, but you have a cookie in the middle and the last one. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Whoever comes first has to eat the cookie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Basically.
SPEAKER_08:Wow. Shoots a cookie. I heard it was Trisket crackers. What's that thing? Put a glaze on a Trisket cracker? I can't talk. We're done.
SPEAKER_06:I'm trying to remember what that joke was. That if you're um to prove you're not gay, if you're you're naked in front of a bunch of your friends boys. What is it? Oh, that's right. You're you're you stand in a group with a bunch of your friends that are boys, and to know if somebody's gay, you're tickling each other's balls. And if someone gets erect, you know that they're okay.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Well, thanks for tuning in today.
SPEAKER_06:It's a good contest. You know what? That's what I'm saying, though, is like we don't even have to let our kids figure it out. We'll tell them, stand in a stand in a group with your boots. Here's how you know, son. Here's how you know. No. Max, do this with your buddies. Okay. I hope he watches this. So, how do we wrap this up? He's gonna watch this shit and be like, is my daddy mentally ill? And I get to be like, Yes, son. Yes, he is. All right, well, thank you again. Very much so, sir. Anyway, thank you so much. This was a blast. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:No, thank you, guys.
SPEAKER_06:You called Siri. What's its name? Just heard me, and it's writing down everything I say and probably gonna call the fucking police again. Again. Again. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us. You are at Josh Guffey on all your socials. Come back and see us. We will certainly do a promotional video of this to get everybody knowing. And, dude, I love you. I really do. I know you're not into that queer shit, but I tap that ass idiot.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I love you too. Okay, not that part, but I love you too.
SPEAKER_08:No, don't ever talk to me again. I'll bring the cookie. Yeah, bring the cookie. I'll come first.
SPEAKER_03:Nick, you probably would.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, now it's not funny. All right. All right, seriously, thank you for joining us. This thing is beat the mental health out of it with Nick, aka Defective Schizo Effective. This is Tony.
SPEAKER_08:Just Tony. No, Andy Pocket.
SPEAKER_06:Andy Pocket, fine. And what do we always say in this podcast? Don't look to the bottle, the knife or the gun. Do you know the rest?
SPEAKER_03:Uh become uh be the soul that you'll become.
SPEAKER_06:Very close.
SPEAKER_03:Close enough.
SPEAKER_06:You are an avid listener. Failed. Wow. First time listener. Oh, wait, long time listener, first time guest. All right, buddy. You take care. We will have you on again, my friend. It's been a lot of fucking absolute pleasure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's been real. Later. It's been feeling better, man. Thanks. Wave to the people.
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