Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
If you live with mental illness — or love someone who does — and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast with dark humor and lived-experience truth. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and frequently joined by co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we have brutally honest conversations about serious mental illness, trauma, and the real-world systems that shape mental health. Topics include schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, psychosis, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction recovery, religious trauma, psychiatric medication, disability, good therapy, bad therapy, psych wards, and practical real-world coping — plus relationships, family dysfunction, work, creativity, and society.
You’ll hear:
- Lived-experience perspective from someone navigating psychosis, relapse, parenting, and recovery in real time.
- No-BS conversations about what helps, what doesn’t, and what the mental health stigma gets wrong.
- Dark humor and honest storytelling that educates and humanizes instead of sensationalizing.
- Interviews with everyday people, professionals, and notable guests, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are.
This show is for anyone trying to survive therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos — or trying to understand a loved one who is. If you want language for what you’re experiencing, conversations that don’t flinch, and a judgment-free vibe with some laughs along the way, you’re in the right place.
We’re not your therapists — we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
Friendship, Accountability & Acceptance | Josh Guffey
In this compelling episode of "Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!", we explore how acceptance, accountability, and friendship serve as catalysts for personal growth.
Discover how to own your truths, embrace your regrets, and choose repair over drama. We dive into the impact of good versus harmful teachers, the negative influence of mentors on relationships, and the importance of addressing mental health openly and honestly, especially with our youth.
Join us as we treat acceptance not as a defeat but as an ignition for growth—learning from challenging experiences, including our own "Fool’s Folly" band breakup and childhood lessons.
We also discuss naming essential friendship values such as honesty, trust, and the power of repair over conflict.
Tune in for insights on:
- Why acceptance is a launchpad for growth
- The importance of accountability in owning your truths
- Spotting the difference between good and harmful teachers
- The role of negative mentors in shaping your life
With a mix of dark humor and real-life perspectives, this episode is designed for anyone navigating the complexities of mental health alongside challenging life experiences.
Name one thing you’re done denying and your next action. Post “I accept ___; I will ___ today” on our Discord "The Struggle Bus"—we’ll hold you to it and so will Guff! (link below)
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.
We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
...Life, life! Welcome to the Welcome to the Podcast. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome Guffy. Welcome Guppy. Welcome Guffy. Welcome Guppy. Welcome. Welcome. Another exciting hurried. Welcome to Shetty Rock, take our fleet. Welcome to Shitty Airlines.
SPEAKER_02:Shitty Airlines. Welcome to the Hui of your bottom. AKA Bottom Huey. AKA beat the mental health out of it with your esteemed, wonderful, fantastic, perfect dickhead of a host. The defective schizo. Oh fuck yeah. The defective schizo effective here with our returning guest. You know him, you love him. Guff, the Guffinator. Part two, baby. Part two. Part of many more to come. So this is obviously just the two of us.
SPEAKER_03:We can make it if we try. Just two of us. A man dies. Two of us. Two of us.
SPEAKER_02:Boy, Will Smith, he ruined his career. Oh yeah. With the slap. Talk about a bit. That was a ballsy move, man. That was a ballsy move.
SPEAKER_00:And the poor guy can't go to any more award shows. Oh.
SPEAKER_02:Let me play a song for him on the world's smallest violin.
SPEAKER_04:Where is Spongebob or Mr. Samsung doing that every time?
SPEAKER_00:Doot doot doot do. Here lie, Squidward's hope and dreams.
SPEAKER_03:What a baby. What a baby.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god. So yeah, clearly we're Spongebob fans, and we are total freaking children about it. There is no funnier or better show, and I guarantee you, Mr. Guff here would totally agree with me.
SPEAKER_04:Would anyone care for a bun bun? Bon bun. How's it taste?
SPEAKER_03:It's a delightful taste.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god. You didn't tune in for the quote SpongeBob uh episode. But here we are. The reason I uh I wanted to start with that is we're gonna segue into our childhood. See, wasn't that good, Gov? Did you expect me to do that?
SPEAKER_00:No, that's pretty smooth.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, see, that's why that's why people tune into this podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Smooth as that bottom.
SPEAKER_02:Smooth as a baby's booty. They are smooth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, smooth like butter.
SPEAKER_02:Her legs are like butter. Okay, moving on here. Before things get too weird, we're gonna save that shit for later.
SPEAKER_00:Before people unsubscribe, unlike.
SPEAKER_02:All 60,000 listeners just stop after this episode. That would be sad. That would be sad. Anyway, let's get to it. So, you know, obviously, as we talked on the episode um with Tony, um, you know, Guff shared some stories about his friend. Uh, but now we're gonna talk more about me and Guff, like our upbringing together and our history in middle school, high school, when I dropped off the face of the earth, um, our history and a band together, kind of what split us apart for a while, and and what brought us back into the fold. So um, yeah, Guff and I attended good old Trans Central. Uh out in the middle of nowhere. In the middle of nowhere. Don't even bother Googling it or looking for it. You you simply won't find it. In fact, uh there are skeptics who say it doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_00:Um it doesn't exist to me anymore.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not convinced it did exist. Well, that's the thing. I mean, I I have to admit, you know, I dropped out of school in seventh grade. Um, so you know, I uh I wasn't around for the high school years. You know, I kind of popped my head back in in freshman year for about a month and a half, and then I I dropped out again. So um, yeah, I mean, uh, you and I really started getting acquainted. It would have been what late high school, even after, right?
SPEAKER_00:Uh it would have been after high school. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, I mean, that's when the band would have started, but I want to go back before that. So um what's interesting is, and I really appreciated you for telling me this, because I kind of knew it, but you you you solidified it and I needed to hear it. Is you know, I was I admittedly, I was pretty well liked in high school, or sorry, middle school. I was pretty popular. Um, but you were one of the only people, if not the only person, to kind of tell me that I was a bit of a prick.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, you were, but it also didn't help that you surrounded yourself with people that were like that too.
SPEAKER_02:I did, yeah, I definitely did. And um, you know, this is Paul and Ryan really notwithstanding on that. They they've always been pretty fairly upstanding people, you know. Everybody's flawed, and we were all asses and jackasses at different times. But um, you know, I did, and I'm not gonna name these people. There's no reason. I mean, I don't think they listened to this, and if they did, you know, good for them, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, who cares?
SPEAKER_02:But like there's no reason to name them. But what I will say is, you know, another friend of mine, you know, which I don't mind mentioning, Jake Miller, you know, who's gonna do a podcast episode with me this Sunday, um, you remember Jake, of course, Guff. Um and, you know, I'll get into you know our history, me and Jake together, but it is really neat to be making, you know, these connections again, uh, even through this podcast. Um, you know, there's people I've been reaching out to that, you know. It is nice that even though I I do know I was a complete ass at different times, and I'll get into kind of why and how that changed for me because I'm not that person anymore. Um, but you know, it is interesting to make these new connections again or reconnect through this podcast. There is something to that. And you know, Guff and I, you know, you you and I really reconnected well before this became a thing. Um but let's kind of go back. Um, so you know, my experience in in you know elementary and middle school, like I said, I I honestly had a pretty damn good time. Um I said I was pretty well liked, even though I I wasn't ass. I don't think I was I I wasn't a bully, but I was I was very physically um like with friends, I was very physical. Um, you know, I kind of hit a lot, um, kind of out of a friendly love kind of thing, but I was a I was a rough and I don't I know Ryan and Paul definitely remember that. Um and it got to the point, you know, where in wrestling for me, you know, I'd be Paul was often my wrestling partner, and because we were friends, and I was I was mean. You know, I I wouldn't, you know, he was, and I don't think you mind me saying he wasn't the greatest wrestler, and also I just wouldn't give him the chance uh to be that because I was I was naturally a good wrestler, and the problem was is that you know my issue with wrestling was that not that I wasn't tough enough, um I never got pinned, never got pinned once, but what happened is I would get so angry that I couldn't remember the damn moves, and I would get my ass kicked when it came to points. You know, so I still still lose, obviously. Uh which anger, you know, I I do want to get into too, plays a lot into my past and even my present, and even yours too, guff. So I mean, like I said, my my experience in in middle school was pretty good. Um and I admittedly I don't know a whole lot of your experiences during that time. Uh you and I really weren't, I mean, I was aware of you, and I think likewise, and we did hung out hang out in some of the same circles a bit, um, but never really connected on a deep level until you know after high school. So do you mind kind of sharing a bit of your experience in elementary and middle? And this could be, you know, your experience during school, it can be at home, it can be whatever you want to share that way, but just to kind of give some depth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a lot of the people may know this, but may not. Um, I was supposed to be class of 2010. Um, our class was 20, would have I mean, if you're if you were still in high school, we all would have been class of 2011. Um, I should have been class of 2010. Um in third grade, um my mom and my uh stepdad um became separated, and so home life wasn't the greatest, being bounced around from mom and you know my stepdad would have visitation with me and my brother as well, and so home life wasn't the greatest, and so academically I suffered from that, and so I ended up being uh held back in third grade, so that's how I ended up with the class that I graduated with. Um, I don't even think I knew that.
SPEAKER_02:I got held back. I damn, I don't even know if I knew that, bro.
SPEAKER_00:Um well, and uh the teacher I had was Mrs. Ryan. And for anybody that knows, she was a very mean-spirited kind of a woman. I I remember her. Yeah, I remember her. I I tell it, I yeah, I call it like I see it. That's what this is all about, man. This is what this is all about. I mean, sh she was a bitch, and so it got to the point in third grade, you know, I was suffering, struggling with home life, and she would keep me away from recess with the other kids. Uh she'd keep me inside the classroom, it'd just be me and her. Uh, so I wouldn't have recess a lot of the time, and she also would keep me away from going to lunch.
SPEAKER_02:What did she say you would do wrong that would keep you from participating in that?
SPEAKER_00:That I wouldn't listen to her when she was teaching. Uh that I'll just doodle on a piece of paper while she's trying to teach the class. So you got punished for that like that? Yeah, absolutely. Wow. I guess I was very defiant. Like I just didn't want to listen, I wanted to be left alone.
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember being that way?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Do you? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Anyone that knows my fucked up memory, I I remember everything from even before kindergarten up until today. So I could remember being in kindergarten, first grade, second grade, as if it happened yesterday. A lot of people can't remember what they did yesterday. So how I ended up stuck with that kind of memory, I don't know. Beats.
SPEAKER_02:Well, what's what's interesting is that I mean I didn't know this really about you until God, we I mean it was recently in the last last time when we reconnected after all those years. I distinctly remember when we met at that place, the bar, and you were going over the menu, and they like took it back immediately, and you knew exactly like what was like I don't remember what the fuck you remembered, but I had to look you know what I'm saying? Like you remembered something on that menu where oh, I was wanting something. And you like remembered what came with it and all this shit, and you didn't even look at that, like for you. So and I remember I pointed that out to you, and you said it kind of made you uncomfortable for people to be aware that you had that kind of memory. Am I right on that, or am I remembering that wrong?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I would say I find it weird because I can remember what other people have done or said, and so I would think that if I share that knowledge to them, that hey yeah, I remember you as a dickhead because you said this like fucking 20 years ago. They kind of look at you like why or how the fuck do you remember that?
SPEAKER_02:Or they just wouldn't believe that you remember that. It's like, oh, you're making that shit up. But here's the thing, I mean, that's why, you know, I I look back and like you remember things so vividly, and I trust it wholeheartedly that you actually remember it the way you say it. For one thing, you're one of the most trustworthy, genuine people I know, and certainly one of the strongest, but also you you don't have a really a manipulative bone in your body. Um, and it's just interesting that you you do remember things so clearly. And I didn't know that you had that quote unquote ability to the level you do, and it's it's a pretty amazing kind of talent that I don't think I have that, but I suffered in school.
SPEAKER_00:I I I couldn't know fucking uh you know, math. I was horrible at math. You know, different subjects like that. So where the I wish where I kind of had that memory and that maintain where I can maintain certain knowledge that I should know, I don't know. I it's it's a weird thing, man.
SPEAKER_02:So even to this day you still would remember like memories, but you don't have you would say a lot, maybe a lot of it has to do with trauma. Oh yeah, no, I was I was gonna get I was just about ready to get on that. I was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So everything I remember what people do or say has caused some kind of reaction in my brain to where it's like permanently implanted.
SPEAKER_02:Permanently etched in, yeah. I mean, here's the thing is that you know, you say you remember what people say, what people do. But clearly you guess for me too.
SPEAKER_00:And I know what I've done and what I said, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And I mean that goes into the whole thing of you know your your remorse and your uh I guess regret for how things went with the band, which we'll get in that later. But um like it's I wonder if like the reason you're remembering things like that so well is because it's so personal to you. You know what I mean? I think maybe that does play into the trauma of why you remember things like that so well. And but like I said, at the restaurant, you remembered the menu like that. Like I I distinctly I remember saying, Holy shit, how did you fucking remember that? And you go, I don't know, I just got this memory. Like, you know, and I didn't really know that about you. Um you know what I mean. So and I know that, you know, one thing that comes with the disorder I have, schizoaffective disorder, especially schizotypal mental illnesses, is that uh memory's a real issue. Um, and it's not that if you remember things wrong, um, there is that kind of, and I wouldn't call it a delusional kind of thing, because I think that's too strong of a of a of a word for it, but there is certainly things that like Paul, Ryan, my family, uh people remember differently than I do. And of course, with kind of a bit of the paranoia aspect, it's like I don't know if I trust that you guys are being truthful with me. But kind of through the years, I've kind of I'm like, damn, people do remember it um correctly, and I probably don't. Of course, the other way that's challenging is because you know, there's times I swear I remember it right, and I'm almost positive I do, but then people will fight me on it. So that's a really difficult mind fuck for me a lot of times. Um is to kind of have that complete fight against each other all the time. Um, but I definitely have gotten to the point, like I know probably you've noticed with you and a lot of other people. I'm like, am I remembering that correctly? Like, truly, and people like you and certain other people that have been so close to me, I'm like, okay, then I trust that they're not trying to fuck me over or manipulate anything. It's like, no, they're they're accurate. Like, I know they've got it down, and a lot of times I am right, but anyway, it is a challenge that way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there has been times, yeah, there's been times you've been right. Or, you know, if there's moments that I don't remember, like say maybe you know, you remember something that maybe I kind of forgot about, but if you remind me of it, it's like I can mentally go right there, and I'm like, oh shit, yeah, that did happen.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're right, you're right. I mean, you can be cued, you know, a lot. Um, but it it's it, I mean, that's a talent and probably a bit of a uh a uh detriment too to yourself, I imagine. It is um probably hard to kind of let things go, maybe a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:That it's a detriment because sometimes uh people would try to tell me, like, no, this is what happened. Like, nope, no. They do want to tell me I'm wrong. I'm like, no, fuck you. I know I'm right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I was there, I heard I know what I heard, I know what I saw.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe there's an element of truth that maybe I I don't know. Anyway, but like going back to what I was saying about third grade, before I forget about it. No, yeah. Um, she would even keep me from going to lunch sometimes. Like I would get in trouble. She wouldn't let me go to lunch.
SPEAKER_02:And every time you wouldn't eat, they would bring food too.
SPEAKER_00:No, I wouldn't eat at all.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00:And so I would tell my mom to get home from school. She'd be like, oh no, they can't do that, Josh. That didn't happen. You're probably making something up or whatever. And then uh eventually she got called in for a parent teacher conference over my uh behavior or lack of lack thereof behavior.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And so uh she had a meeting with my mom, and one of the questions she asked my mom was, does Josh write his feces on the wall? And my mom said, What did you just ask me? She goes, Does Josh take his feces and does he write on the walls with it? And I remember my mom getting up, she goes, I am not fucking doing this. Fuck you for even asking that question. We're getting the fuck out of here.
SPEAKER_02:What do you think spawned them to even think that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, beast me, man.
SPEAKER_02:You you definitely hear of like teachers picking on kids for sure. I mean, that that can be a thing. And I I'm sure it sounds like this was, but there had to be some sort of motivation or some sort of thing that would have made her think to even approach any of this, right? I mean, you said you were, you know, you were quiet and you know, were doodling in class, which how many fucking kids did that.
SPEAKER_00:Um it'd be like she'd ask me a question, I'd just straight up ignore. Because if she was just a mean person, I just didn't want to interact with her. So she'll like, you know, when teachers were, hey, what's this question? What's the answer to this question? And then she'll just ignore the kids that had their hands raised, and then she'll call somebody out. She'd be like, Hey Josh, answer this answer this question for me. And I'll just completely ignore. And she'd be like, Hello, Earth Josh, are you with us? And I just ignore. And then she'd even uh there's been a couple times she told me, All right, Josh, just grab your stuff and go straight to the principal's office.
SPEAKER_02:You went to the principal's office for that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I just, you know, grab what stuff I had and I just go to the principal's office and how did the principal can uh handle that? Honestly, he didn't really do much. He was just like, Well, okay, we'll just Sit there and we might have to call your parents. But no, so he really he didn't he didn't or he'll just send me back. Oh, would he?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. So he wouldn't really fight, he wouldn't really quote unquote discipline you, but he didn't really like he was just kind of like uh okay, well you're sitting here, so whatever. Kind of thing. Interesting.
SPEAKER_00:I remember one I remember one of the times, uh you know, during that time period, I became introduced to Nintendo 64 for the first time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so there's Pokemon Coliseum. A game that was hot, I guess, at the time. Pokemon Stadium. So I remember yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Pokemon Stadium. Uh I remember one time thinking about playing that game while she was teaching a class, and that's when I straight up ignored her one of those times. Because I was thinking about playing that game instead of listening to her.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Josh goes to the principal's office.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I just have to ask. I have to ask. Yeah. Did they think, did they think you were slow? Did they think you were ADD or ADHD or autistic or any of that shit? Did you ever, did they ever, anybody ever attempt to diagnose you with any of that? And I I'm going somewhere with this.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I'm thinking that teacher was asking my mom questions like what she did to see if I was on that spectrum. And then it really affects it really offended my mom.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and here's the thing. I mean, clearly you're not, you're not, I don't even know the fucking terms anymore. I mean, yeah, mentally retarded was the term, and of course we turned that into an insult, which I bring that back. That was fucking fun. I I'm sorry. Like, it was funny.
SPEAKER_03:I was talking, I've talked to several Freds who are like, yeah, bring faggot back, bring fucking retarded back.
SPEAKER_02:You know, they're just I get that they're offensive terms now, and I'll probably get you know canceled for even saying that. But it's just like, you know, things aren't offensive until you kind of like that, until you but uh thank you. Yes, you and you and Tony are always good about Nick. Move on before you get yourself digging your six-foot grave into a 12-foot one.
SPEAKER_00:Um don't take me with you.
SPEAKER_04:We're already there, buddy. We're already there.
SPEAKER_02:But um anyway, so I was just curious if they did do that because um, you know, I mean, back then you would have shown quote unquote the signs or characteristics of somebody who back then they would have probably thrown that diagnosis on to. Um and I can tell you that when I was that age, they were trying to diagnose me as ADHD. And I wasn't, I was hyper. And there's a difference. Anyway, so I was just really curious if they had happened to try to diagnose you with something because uh no one professionally ever tried, no.
SPEAKER_00:Um the school didn't, me and that teacher did for that little bit, but my mom didn't want to hear any of it. So when uh she when uh the school broke the news that you know I was gonna have to be held back, my mom said, Yeah, Josh probably should be held back. Here's my condition. He is not gonna be in that bitch's class for next year. And they totally understood, and they let my mom have the pick of the available teachers, and I ended up going with Mrs. Jones.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, Mrs. Jones is really nice, I remember her.
SPEAKER_00:Polar opposite from what I had. Yeah, no, I'm sure. Mrs. Jones, she was a sweetheart of a woman, uh, compassionate. I think she I think she knew my situation. I think my mom ended up speaking with her a little bit about it. Right. So that's so I think she had a good idea what was going on. And she also had a uh an assistant. Uh I'm just gonna name drop her, I don't care. Uh, Nina Combs, her mom would help out with Mrs. Jones class. And she was an uh another wonderful woman and very very sweet as well.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, I remember I remember Nina Combs and her mom. They're they're both great people.
SPEAKER_00:Um I I think with Nina's mom and Mrs. Jones together really helps my mentality and helped me get through that second year, that third grade.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it is amazing how much just a good supportive teacher can can help. Um that's so that is powerful, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think the classmates too was great as well. So uh it was nerve-wracking that first week or so, you know, being around a different whole different class. I did have there was a a few different people that were held back in the same year.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I ended up being in my class. Um so it's always, oh hey, I know you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it looks good to have some familiarity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You got held back too? Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean it it is really kind of powerful how much just a kind supportive teacher can really make a difference.
SPEAKER_00:I just need I just needed some kind of support. I didn't need medication. I there wasn't not there wasn't anything wrong with me.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I had a lot of home life issues, and that was it.
SPEAKER_02:And that that's the thing. And and I I I really like I said, I'm truly happy they really didn't pursue that a whole lot with you. I do think it's kind of a blessing in disguise. Well, not really, just a blessing that you uh you never were, you know, kind of just thrown into one of those categories, you know, and I think so many are. But um so, you know, that's kind of your elementary period. And then I mean middle school is when you and I would have gotten more connected, I guess. Um I think we I I don't remember interacting with you a ton. Um but I definitely I definitely remember, you know, you were hanging around with Jake Thumb. Um that was kind of the crew, that was the most into that crew you got. Um, you know, Jake was another one that everybody just loved.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and Jake, he moved to our school in seventh grade.
SPEAKER_02:Right, yeah, he came late. He would have been the friend of that crew that I was with that you would have been most in, I think, most involved with. But again, he was another really nice guy and still is. Um, you know, he kind of dropped off the face of the earth too, I mean, many years, um, and kind of just had his own struggles, but we'll cover that kind of on his episode. But either way, um, you know, how did middle school kind of go for you? What what was a bit of your experience there?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you I wrestled in middle school too. Um, but here's the thing I wasn't a great wrestler. The biggest reason why I wasn't, because I was too damn worried about what people thought of me. And I was afraid I was gonna hurt somebody. I was I didn't want people seeing me in that damn singlet because I thought they were ugly as hell. I hated those damn singlets.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, they're they're uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00:I don't really well I was very insecure with myself, and so I let Well, we all were like what a weird fucking thing to put yeah, but uh it wouldn't it wouldn't allow me to put in the effort or uh I couldn't give it my all because I was so damn insecure of myself where I know if I actually put my all my effort and took the shit very seriously.
SPEAKER_02:You felt comfortable and confident, you would have been a completely different wrestler. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean there's no doubt about it. And you know what's funny is I haven't shared this much, but I mean it's just funny, I don't give a shit. Is you know, I don't know if you ever had this, and I don't even know if you admit it if you did. But sometimes, you know, you I remember getting erections in those fucking singlets.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's that's you, buddy. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_02:But it wasn't like it wasn't from I don't think it was from lesslin dudes, although, you know, maybe. I don't I don't know. Maybe Paul turned me on, you know, it's just wrestling Paul and my oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Um you like showing your dominance.
SPEAKER_02:No, but like well, there was there was I've shared on here there was a period where I questioned if I was a homosexual. I went through a short period of that. But you know, I maybe it was during that time. I was like, God, I'm wrestling dudes, and I'm just having a good time here. But you know, I mean it's honestly it's nothing to do with that. I mean, you just you rub it down there and you you kind of you get aroused just by that. But it's just again, that kind of in a weird way, but that plays into an insecurity. You know, I mean, you're seeing just skin tight shit on teenage fucking boys. Um, I I've never really liked that. I mean, even back then I was insecure too, but yeah I was able to overcome it a bit, but like I said, I mean I would have been a much better wrestler if I could have kept my damn anger in check. You know, that just always took over.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I and I yeah, I wrestled in middle school, I did football seventh grade. Right. I opted out of eighth grade. And uh to be honest, I don't know why I didn't play my eighth grade year. Uh I just don't think I wanted to. Uh I mean it's like I wanted to, but I also didn't want to. I I don't know why, but I I didn't play eighth grade year, and I wish I would have, but I didn't.
SPEAKER_02:Did you ever play any sports after that or just kind of stayed off the sports thing for the rest of your own?
SPEAKER_00:I think I wrestled wrestled freshman year.
SPEAKER_02:Did you?
SPEAKER_00:And then I think I ended up quitting middle of the season.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. Okay. And that was that was kind of the end of your sports.
SPEAKER_00:Well, no, I played football all four years of high school. Did you? Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know if you did or not.
SPEAKER_00:I figured you did, but I quit wrestling because I wanted to learn um like the fundamentals of the actual wrestling. And I felt like all we did was run as if we were in cross-country. And I hated that aspect. I hated running. Running is not my strong suit. Uh, because by the time we were done running, you know, I'm tapped out, I'm gassed out, I don't want to wrestle. That was the last thing I wanted to fucking do.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I gotta say, I mean, it was it was ran like a boot camp.
SPEAKER_00:But now I understand that can now I understand that conditioning plays a huge factor into wrestling.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean I think for me it didn't work because I had no desire to wrestle after we got done doing fucking 10 miles of running before practice, and I fucking hated that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. I mean it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00:I'd rather I'd rather wrestle and get my energy out on the mat, learn the fundamentals, and then you know, once I felt confident of that, then I could work on my cardio. But you know, we're not coaches, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, the interesting thing is, I mean, you had did you have McFarron? Would he have been your coach?
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, he was a former drill sergeant. So I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00:Um I know he liked to use his I I know he liked to use his brother as an example that you know he um is mentally handicapped and he would do he'd be in the Special Olympics and has won medals, and so anytime you'd hear somebody say, Well, I can't do it, I can't do this, I can't do that, you know, you'd want to bring up and talk about his brother.
SPEAKER_02:Like I do remember that. And I remember one of the one of my favorite sayings he had, which is just funny, is wrestling was 20% uh physical and 90% mental. And we always had to give 110%. Do you remember him saying that all the time?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Crack crack my shit up. I I love it. I mean, it's funny. But um, either way, um so you still played sports and all that. So, what were your like relationships like among friends?
SPEAKER_00:Like outside of a few people, not very many. I uh I wanted to say to myself, there's a lot of people I didn't like. Uh I just felt a lot of people were phony and two-faced.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so that's why I'd rather stick to myself.
SPEAKER_02:No, I think I get that. And of course, you know, it's teenagers. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I just don't like people. No, I I get it.
SPEAKER_02:I get it. I get it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, um I had my circle, I had my circle of people. Uh Paul. He's one of my closest friends, and Ryan.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um man. Jake, but you know, it wasn't as tight as maybe say middle school.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Uh God, not not really. Not really a lot of not really a lot of friends. I mean, you just have the people that you were in classes with that you could get along or joke around with and have laughs, but French friends. Yeah. Uh senior year, I played football. Uh I ended up quitting like the last probably the last week or two of the season. Um before before that football year or season began. I hurt my ankle during the two-a-day practices. Uh turned out it turned out to be a uh a sprain to Achilles.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it wasn't a tear, but it was like border borderline. It was right there. It was about the tear, my Achilles. And so I suffered for the first few weeks, you know, with my ankle being all fucked up. Right. Um, and I pushed through the uh pushed through the year, uh, but then it started to bother me again towards the end of the year. And you know, our whole varsity lineup was all seniors. Outside maybe like one or two that were maybe like wide receivers or you know, or a backup running back. Um so my ankle started bothering me again, and it was causing me to have issues playing, and they told me that they were gonna bench me for a freshman. Now, our whole varsity linemen is all seniors, and they told me they're they were gonna bitch me for a freshman, and I said, if you bench me, I quit. And I told King that.
SPEAKER_02:So did they did they bench you or you just quit before they could?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, yeah. They benched me. And so I said, Okay. Show showed up, I know showed a game to get their attention. And he pulled me to the side, he goes, Oh, I don't want you to quit, but we are benching you. And I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna turn I'm gonna turn in my pads. And so I did. Turn in my pads and called it a day. Wow. That wrapped up my football career.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thing is, I I know how much you love football because you fucking still do, you know. At least uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:No, that fucking ankle, man, it it bothered me that whole season.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you fought through it, and then what's happened? You you don't even reap the benefits of fucking fighting through it.
SPEAKER_00:I had one bad game where it really I really struggled with it, and I was working really hard to overcome that, and then to be told that I was gonna get benched for a freshman. Like, fuck you. I quit. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Like if you bench me, I quit. Yeah, that's a shitty thing to do to a fucking school. Yeah, it was the it it was the yeah, it was the very last game of the season. It was against Mylan. Yeah. It was gonna be a rogue game, and they told me they were gonna bench me for a freshman. And I said, I won't be there. And they're like, oh, okay. Oh, I know show. Wow. And then that first Monday back, King pulled me to decide, hey, uh, where were you? I told you I wasn't gonna be there. If you were gonna bench me, I wasn't gonna be there. Well, that's not supporting the team.
SPEAKER_02:Uh not supporting the team is you know uh benching an injured player who's you know probably capable of still playing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was capable of playing. It just pissed me off. I'm like, no, that's bullshit. Like, our whole lineup is all of the seniors.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna bitch me for a freshman. Fuck you. And so I think it means.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't blame you, man. I don't blame you. Kind of proud of you that you did. That's probably that's a pretty bold thing for a high schooler to do, I think. Stand up to their coaches and be like, fuck you, kind of thing. Um but you know, you you've always been a pretty bold, if not reserved, you know, person. Um I can definitely say, you know, I I remember, at least what I remember of you in the elementary, you know, middle school years, you were never an overly outspoken, you know, person. You're pretty reserved. Um pretty quiet. I mean, you know, you really weren't you you would kind of disappear. You you know, you would come out sometimes, you know, but I admittedly you did kind of disappear um into the into kind of the the groups and and just kind of quietly you know do your thing. And is that something you wanted to do, or is it kind of just that's where you felt safe, or you're just like you didn't want to fuck with anybody? Like, do you wish you were more social? Like, how do you how do you feel about some of that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, if you would have asked me about two years ago, I would have said, no, I think I was cool with everything. I wouldn't have changed anything, and now certain events have transpired within the past two years. And now I'm like, well, well fuck. Like if I if I took this energy and how I am now back then, like, good lord, yeah, I would have been a social butterfly, I would have actually ventured out to try to make friends. Well, regardless if I thought they were two-faced or not, you know. Still have some kind of companionship with people.
SPEAKER_02:Um here's the thing. I mean, as teenagers, we're all fucked up. I mean, we are, you know, we're trying to figure ourselves out, figure out relationships, figure out, you know, the future, especially in like late high school. And I mean, it is a lot of stress. I I mean, I think often it is made to be a bigger thing than what it actually is, you know. I also think, you know, maybe it depends on your aspirations. You know, if someone's wanting to, you know, go do great, amazing things. Yeah, I get that. But like most of us just kind of want to find a path, and and that's hard enough. But you know, I mean, my my trajectory certainly changed, you know, pretty heavily in in that seventh grade area. Um I mean, I I don't know how much you remember of all this. Um it was amazing that when I did the episode with Alexis, she remembered so much. But you know, I you know, I dropped off the face of the earth due to, you know, imploding basically. From my mental illness. And then, you know, kind of one thing I did want to explore with you, and this will kind of be a segue into that, is simply acceptance. Acceptance of your life, acceptance of your situations, acceptance of the cards you were dealt. Because if there's one thing I've really uncovered in my therapy that I'm in right now, is simply that I haven't accepted my situation as far as my mental illness. You know, it's what's interesting is obviously I'll accept the diagnosis left and right. You know, clearly I I've done that my whole life. You know, it's not like I go up to people, hey, I'm Nick, I'm schizoaffective. But it's not something I'm just like hiding. Um obviously not. You know, I'm out here fucking putting it out there. But what I haven't accepted is the actual limitations of the mental illness itself. So as you know, I'm not working right now trying to get on disability. And there's that whole thing of, you know, I'm not providing for the family, I'm not working, uh, you know, and and right now there's a lot going on that I'm a lot more um isolating and trying to, you know, stay calm and stay healthy and all this stuff. But kind of what I wanted to go into about my experience during that was, I mean, as you know, I did drop off the face of the earth. I mean, nobody knew what the hell happened to me. I kind of had that episode music class and then I was out. Um, but what kind of happened, you know, and I don't know how much of you remember about this part of me back then, but you know, I was in very good shape. I was a really great athlete. I was also one of the top in the class as far as academically. Um so I was very successful both ways. And, you know, once I imploded mentally and had to go inpatient and you know, started getting on medications, you know, one of the first antipsychotic meds I was on was Resperidol. And I gained 60 or 70 pounds in about six months. Um and then of course I uh was very cloudy and um, you know, all this stuff. And and oddly enough, I uh you know, I was recently diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. And I was kind of talking, you know, my mom had an appointment the other day, and we were talking about, you know, funny, the appointment turned from about me to about or about her to about me. Because you went back and looked, the nurse practitioner went back and looked at my records and found out that you know how bad it was. And she's like, You might have been you might have had sleep apnea since you were a kid. And, you know, of course, sleep apnea, you know, if you have sleep apnea, it in you know, the way mine works, and I didn't even know how this fucking worked, but you know, sleep apnea is when you stop breathing or your breathing is a bit obstructed. So you know you either stop breathing completely or your breathing's very tight and strained. So I had anywhere from 60 to 100 some instances an hour. And there were so they have the partial, they actually can can like label both. So you have a partial stoppage, which is like, you know, your your brace closed or it's a little blocked, and you have whole. Well, I was about half. So on this fucking chart where they do the sleep study, there were many times in an hour where I would stop breathing for 30 seconds. Like, and it was half like that, so I'd stop breathing from like 10 seconds to 30 seconds, half of those instances in an hour, and the others would be like, you know, uh obstructed, slightly obstructed breathing. So it's like the only reason I'm sharing all that is because I think a lot of this played in the trajectory of kind of where I'm at now, and this all plays into the acceptance side of it. So, you know, very successful athlete, very, very in shape, very confident. You know, girls wanted me, you know, I was very liked that way, I was very liked as a person, even though I know I was an ass. And part of it is because I was so confident and I was so successful in both those ways. Um, what they always say is, you know, my my uncle Mike has his picture up in the high school, and it's because he's one of the best academic students that's ever gone through Triton, you know. I mean, I know it's a small school, you know, but still it's it's impressive. And my goal was always to have my picture next to his. Um, you know, the two witchmans on the wall. Um but what's interesting is you know when that all happened, and I, you know, my lost my physical, you know, abilities, I lost my mental capacity. So I became a completely um almost like a watered-down version of who I was. Um, but that also humbled me a lot. Um and I can safely say I've never had a good self-esteem. Even then I didn't. A lot of that was a mask, a lot of it was posturing. Um, but still, you know, definitely when I lost those, you know, things I took a lot of pride in, you know, I I that that's a hard hit, and I still haven't really overcome that. You know, I'm a fat fuck now. Um, you know, I'm very cloudy minded. Um, you know, I don't have a successful career, you know, tried to build it many times and failed many times, hence why I'm trying to get on disability now and all that. But I guess again, it all comes down to you know, you have this, I had this stellar kind of trajectory I was pursuing, and then it all kind of just in one kind of moment, it was those all gone. Um, but again, like you said, I uh my personality changed after that. Um I became more subdued. I mean, I always very social. I love being social. You know, relationships mean so much to me. Um, and I'm actually Katie and I kind of talked my wife about how you know I'm probably pretty rare in how many relationships I like to have. Um, you know, she's okay with like three to five core relationships in her life and often less than that. Um I like to have I'll I'll have 20. You know, just people that are all so core to me. Um, you know, there's more that are central, but like I do like to expand my social circles to a pretty deep level. And when relationships like that kind of tank or they they dissipate, um, I get hurt. I get hurt really bad by that. Um, you know, I don't I can't I don't like letting people go when it comes to that. So again, this all kind of plays into acceptance. I haven't accepted that, you know, all that shit went south with me. I haven't accepted a lot of the relationships that I've lost that I cared about. And even now, as you know, Guff, and I mentioned, you know, through this podcast, I'm trying to actually reconnect to people. And I have. Um, but it is hard for me to accept a lot of those losses, and of course it's hard for me to accept my situation now with need to get on disability and you know, a lot of the financial burden that's placing, and even the mental burden that's placing on not only me, but my my wife. Um so all that to share, acceptance is fucking hard, and it's probably my greatest enemy right now is simply accepting the cards I've been dealt, the limitations I have, and if if if we can, and this is anybody, if we can accept those things, then we can move on from it and and proceed in in the best way possible with the cards we've been dealt. We can continue to play the game. Um so I guess I want to share all that. I know that was a bit long. I don't know if I've really shared all that on here, um, like that, but all that kind of to go back to uh I I know you've struggled with that yourself, and you don't necessarily have to share the situations behind it. Um but it does seem like you're further along that path than me.
SPEAKER_00:Um thing is that I would like to be the social butterfly, reach out to people, reconnect. Here's the thing, I've been fucked over by so many people. I have severe trust issues.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that makes me not want to reach out to people because I would just get burned time after time again. And so I'm at the point I'm like, well, fuck it. I don't I don't really need them anyway. Um there are some people I'm glad I have reconnected with, and there's some I have reconnected with and hasn't gone anywhere. Um as to either they do or say something that rubs me the wrong way, brings up old trauma, red flags, and I just kick them out in my life, and so want nothing to do with them. And yeah, it doesn't bother me one bit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean god, I admire that.
SPEAKER_00:I mean it sucks, yeah. But it's like, man, I'm not gonna put effort into something or try to force something that's not there, and I just don't want to get fucked over again. Aka the the events over the past two years is why I have severe trust issues.
SPEAKER_02:No, I know what you mean, and and and you have developed that kind of wall or safety net of being okay with, hey, you know, this person's a dick, or this person's not treating me well, or you know, this person's not trustworthy. So, you know what? I don't need them. Like, you're gone.
SPEAKER_00:And I have a really good read on people.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, you do. You are an incredibly socially aware person. I I am too, although mine's clouded sometimes. But it's like today, I have to mention, like, we were in the car, and you know, I was gonna give you that baked potato from Wendy's. And you you asked Katie, like, do you want that baked potato? And she was trying so hard to fake that she was okay with it. And by the way, I can read her like a book too. She's not very good at faking stuff, she's another just painfully genuine person. Again, doesn't have a manipulative bone in her body. So, but you've you picked up on it so easily. Like, no, she's hesitated, she wants it. You know, it's just funny. You are an example.
SPEAKER_00:She started laughing. It's like, all right, got my answer.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, you called her out, yeah. And that's good. That's good because a lot of people aren't comfortable just being like, no, I want it. Or no, I don't want it. You know, it's just like being definitive. There's a confrontation.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you can have it if you want it. So nope, it's yours, you claimed it. Right, right. Goodbye, I'm leaving.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you just left after the potato thing. No, the weather was really bad. Yeah, really, the potato thing really got to you, buddy. No, uh, but what's what is interesting about that is I think you being kind of quiet allows you that space to observe and be aware socially. Where I've developed my social intelligence from interacting so damn much, you know, from from so many social interactions with different people and connections and things like that. Um, so it's kind of weird that we both developed, I think, a pretty high level of social awareness and social intelligence, social emotional intelligence in completely different ways. Um and I'd argue maybe yours is healthier. Um because I gotta say, you have a more mature approach to this than me. I mean, just by default. Because my thing is that, you know, I want all these relationships and I've been fucked over a billion times, yet I continue to trust, I continue to put my all into relationships. And, you know, often, I I'd say a majority of the time, even core relationships to me, that doesn't get reciprocated. And then I'm devastated by it. Um and that's people close to me, that's even you know, people I've reconnected with, and hey, we're is this gonna be like what we had? And of course it's never gonna be rarely. Um you are truly one of the if you might be truly the only person from my actual past that when we reconnected the last year, year and a half, it was deeper than we've ever been. Um, and I think a lot of it came from the trauma we've experienced and life experience, um and having children too. Um, you know, there's there's things that you and I can can relate about that I simply can't with any other friends. Um, and you're willing to go to those depths with me to explore it.
SPEAKER_00:Um a lot of people don't want to talk about it because they want to suppress it or act like it or act like it doesn't bother them, but down to their core, you you feel their vibe that there's something there they don't want out. Um, you're exactly right. That that's what the difference between our relationship opposed to maybe other people. So I think uh like my biggest thing uh things I've been told over certain events was just move on, don't think about it. It's like, all right, well, here's the thing. If you people that say that, I truly believe have mastered the ability to suppress their feelings to where they have you know mentally keep telling themselves, oh, that's not a big deal, it's not a big deal, just so they can keep those emotions and and that pressure cooker's gonna go off eventually.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I can tell you that that ends up imploding on people, and it's actually something that will truly shorten your fucking life. Truly. That takes physical effects on yourself. Um I mean, good example is Ryan. Um, you know, with what he was going through in his marriage, you know, suppressed all of that. And of course, has made great strides becoming a policeman and finding the woman of his dreams. And but you know, he had 11, I think 11 years of that relationship, and it was not a good one. Um, you know, kind of a toxic relationship. I don't want to go into details, you know, uh, to take agency of sharing a lot of that. But that's a conversation.
SPEAKER_00:That's a conversation I'd love to have with him about.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, I you know, I I think that connection could easily happen again. Um but what I was gonna say, you know, because he was a band member, I guess we might get into that. But what I was gonna say is, you know, I do know that he's really struggling with acceptance and processing things now that he never did before. And it is absolutely a struggle for him that if he kind of had processed and maybe approached things differently and you know, been willing to be more confronting, uh confrontational on and not and not be um you know submissive and and quiet about, you know, things he could have maybe not been in a different position than he is now. I mean he's doing great, you know. I'm not saying that, but maybe he had grown as a person differently and not be so not be struggling mentally as much as he is now.
SPEAKER_00:Um I'm sure his profession too helps with that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, it has to. I mean, you know how it is, I mean, you've heard the videos he's put out there um lately, you know. Um that that situation is something that really affected him. And um the fact that, you know, on the job, he talks about, you know, when you're when you're in those moments, it it's work. You know, it's like, oh, you know, put put the emotions aside, you were there to to do the job. And then afterward, you implode. You know, you you have to to take that in. And of course, the bit of a tangent here, but I think it's an important one, is you know, you hear of like uh emergency responders and policemen and firemen who see these god-awful events. You know, we're talking, you hear of paramedics on the highways when people get hit by cars, they're they're they explode. You know what I mean? It's like, or you hear, you know, um, veterans who who talk pretty in comedic ways about their tragedy. There is, again, to go back to that whole there is healing through finding humor in things that just objectively are not funny, you know, like my grandmother's suicide. I can make fun of that now. I have to, you know, again, that plays back to something I haven't actually accepted. I'm still livid at that woman. And what's interesting is, you know, I totally understand where she came from and why she did it, like 100%, but I'm still livid about it. I haven't forgiven her for it. And I will say one thing I've struggled with majorly in the past probably year, year and a half is forgiveness. Um, I do not like forgiving people for slighting me or slighting a family member or even themselves. You know, it's like you do something stupid to yourself, it's like I don't even forgive you. And I do want to go into this, and this is kind of the segue I was gonna get to, is you know, the band, what happened with the band? You know, Paul, Ryan, you and me were in a band, and a lot of shit went down. Fuck, I don't even remember all of it, honestly. I really don't. I remember certain key things. Um, but I can tell you that you have, you know, you and you and Paul, you know, had that falling out, and that that relationship never really recovered, and at this point, probably isn't going to. Um, and no need to go into like true details about that, but the the thing I want to share about that is that you have accepted it. You were like, you know what, if if this isn't something he wants to cultivate, then I don't need to either. You know, this is something that both of us can meet in the middle on, find uh, you know, uh a common ground, you know, and both admit fault, take accountability, but also forgive the other one. You know, that relationship can can can somehow a bit come back. Maybe it'll never be what it was, but it can return to a level. Um, but he's not ready for that, and that's okay. But what I was gonna say is you've accepted that. You know, but who hasn't accepted that? It's me. I mean, I remember after, you know, the last time you two were together and nothing really came of that, you were pretty quick to just be like, I know you were probably hurt by it. You know, I don't want to take that away from you. But I will say I was hurt by that a lot, and I couldn't let it go, and I got mad at him, and I was even mad at you for being okay with it. You know, I don't know if I really shared that. But again, it's just like, but again, that's on me, completely on me. It's like, again, it's like a situation with my my wife, Katie. You know, uh, I don't want to get into this because it's personal to her, but there's some there's a family member of hers that kind of has slighted us as a group, and you know, she has been like, okay, you know what? That's on them, that's on that person, and she can let it go. But you know who can't let it go? Again, it's me. It's like this shit keeps me up at night. And it's just like the people who are actually being affected by it can let it go. So again, it all comes from acceptance. And I gotta say, you know, that is obviously a huge crux of my issue, my mental struggle right now is just accepting anything. Um, you know, there's a complete lack of forgiveness, there's a complete lack of acceptance, and I'm trying to find out how to mentally get there. And oddly enough, and Guff, you know about this, is you know, I had to put my dog down, Gotti. Um it was Tuesday. And, you know, I've been fighting depression, you know, I've been fighting it off, and you know, I'd have my moments of happiness, moments of, you know, it would kind of ebb and flow. Um, and you know, there'd been a lot of things that have happened in the past month or two that really tanked me, you know, but I I could usually fight my way back. However, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. So I don't mind admitting I'm in a full state of depression right now. Like there's there's nothing other than just depression. But what's interesting is you know what they say, kind of when you hit that low, you can kind of build yourself back up, you know. Um, but what's interesting is that, you know, things that would normally make me very angry, and I'm talking like personal slights, whether they're big or small, or personal offenses, whether it's people I love, people like you know, just societal things I'm saying, like, oh, that's wrong. You know, it's like, well shit, like I uh now I don't have the fight in me. You know, I just I don't have it in me to get heated. So now it's just it is by default kind of giving up on fighting about it, which I think is playing into accepting. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I you want to speak on that because you've found it. You've gotten there. And I know I'm sure that ebbs and flows for you, and like sometimes doesn't work, but you have figured out how to do that. So Fucking enlighten me, bro.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if I truly found it. Um I have my extreme ups and I have my extreme downs. When I'm up, I'm happy go lucky, you know, willing to do anything and every whatever with anybody. Um but when I get low, I just shut the world out. I ghost. I just want people to leave me the fuck alone. I can't tell you what triggers it because I don't know. It just hits me like a ton of bricks. Um I just get to the I just get to the point I just want people to leave me the fuck alone, give me my space, and when I come out of it, I'll reach out to you. But I can't I can't mentally or physically tell people that when I get into that mindset. I someone someone like if someone reaches out to me, I may not respond. That's probably because I'm in a low and I just want to be left to fuck alone. Right. But I can't force myself to communicate that. So I don't know how to get myself to that point where I can mentally and physically get myself to just say, hey, not doing so hot. Talk to you when I'm feeling better.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I don't I I don't know how to get to that point.
SPEAKER_02:But that's the thing. Yeah, but here's the thing, and I'll go ahead and share it. Is you know, recently, you know, I I you know I've been struggling, and clearly you were on your end, right? And I was kind of quote unquote expecting you to reach out, and you didn't, but you were having your own struggles, and that was your approach to quote unquote healing. Um, but you know, I don't have a lot of people that I trust to reach out to, and many of them are fair weather friends. You know, they're around when when things are okay for them, but when things are bad for me, you know, they're not around, and you've never been that, and you're still not, by the way. But you know, I and you know, I kind of sent you that voice message about you know how I was really hurt by that, and blah blah blah blah, you know, and I was really, you know, but that that's all to share. That's not to call you out about anything bad at all, it's to share that you needed that space, and that is how you process things, and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what I mean? That that is the only point of sharing that. It's not to demonize you, it's not to call you out in front of all these people, it's not about that, it's that you had to process. And in Italy, when I told you that, you you took full accountability for not being there. But however, what I'm getting at here is that sometimes you gotta take care of your fucking self. You know, that's important. Um, and you know, you can't really help anybody else until you get yourself in a good space. And there is something to that. Now, kind of the whole ghosting thing, and this is for anybody. I'm not a fan of that in general. Um, and I guess that's what you're saying you need to work on is be like, hey, like I hear you, but right now I'm not capable of helping you. I can barely help myself. So, you know, give me the time to get my mindset right so I can help you. You know what I mean? And that's what, you know, clearly you kind of do that, but you you had the ghosting aspect to it, which is what triggered me to be upset. I'm not saying it's wrong that you that you took the time, but it it really hurt me that I didn't know why. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I needed uh hear from you how you're feeling about how you felt about that. And it it woke me up. I was like, you know what, he he's right. Uh yeah, you know, like going forward, like if I get to that point, yeah, I'll I'll I'll reach out to you and see if you're doing okay. If you're doing alright, then then I then I know that you're good, you're you're solid, then I could go ahead and continue my leave me the fuck a lunch stage. But if you're not okay, then I will reach out to you, and you can talk whatever you need.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it it does seem like you know, since you know we we got together today, even, you know, it's like we both were talking about things. Um, and it really helped me just to be around you, you know. I I hopefully that was uh the uh same, likewise, but um but that's the thing though, is that you know, feeling that safety to just tell somebody like, hey, like right now, I I really can't do this. Um I think that actually shows more respect and more uh comfort to the other person that hey, you know, this person just doesn't have the capability to handle both what they're going through and what I'm going through. Um and but here's here's what I'm getting at here, too, is that I am horrible. Because not only will I not say no to people to my detriment, I will reach out to people. And when I don't have the capability to handle my own problems or like support, you know, my my family mentally sometimes, um, I will still reach out to everyone around me to try to quote unquote fix what they're going through. Um, or try to, you know, solve their problems or anything like that. I I'm uh I am very much a fixer. And admittedly, a lot of the value I find in myself in life right now and for a long time, this well before Max, is the help and services, quote unquote, that I can do for others. You know, that's my value. It's not I'm valuable as a person in itself, it's that I'm valuable because I can help others. So being that that's quote unquote my identity, that's what I try, that's what I do. But anymore, it is absolutely to my detriment. Um I have to accept the choices others make in their lives. And um, you know uh I'm struggling a bit with some of the choices that Tony has made. Uh Indy Packett, you know, my normal co-host. Um he's he's he's in a real slump right now, a pretty bad one. And it's it is due to some choices he's made. But and we talked about this, like him and I, but I can't change the decisions he's made, and I have to accept what he's done. And if that's to his detriment, that's fine. But a lot of what I've discovered also in therapy is a lot of the reason I try to fix a lot of things for others, and you included, Gov, this is anybody I care about, and even people I'm not that damn close to, is I want to spare people the pain I went through. You know, I've been through a pretty significant amount of trauma and pain in my life. You know, I go through kind of torture every day with what I have. And the problem is if I try to fix everything for everyone else, I I am depriving them of growth. Because what is growth? You have to go through the pain and suffering to grow. So you can't have everything fixed for you by someone else. And I guess what I'm getting at too is that it's fucking stupid of me to even try. I mean, it's a very quote unquote noble cause or a very loving thing, but it's to my detriment too, because I can't fix everybody's problems. In fact, I can't really fix anybody's. And if somebody doesn't, you know, take my advice or you know, continues down the detrimental path that they're on, I get pissed off about it. I'm purred and all this stuff. It's just like again, all of this plays into acceptance. You know what I mean? So I do.
SPEAKER_00:I think my biggest thing, you know, with you, you know, I'm gonna be there for you 100%. I think maybe my biggest contribution to maybe helping others uh through my experiences and what I went through is I can't obviously just say you can't fix their problems, but I know I can maybe give advice and feedback to others maybe that are experiencing cheating or infidelity. Right. Problems in their relationship, marriage, what have you.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's because your friend went through that and he's really opened up to you so much about that, and it hurt him so bad. So when you see someone that close to you, damn near I mean, in their fucking lives over something like that, you know, that's something you can't help but take personally and advocate for when you see it out there. Um, you know, my wife's uh dad, you know, was was unfaithful to her mom and and it broke up the marriage. And what's crazy is that whole family family unit, both her dad's side and her mom's side, were just so close. I mean, you don't get that anymore. Like where this both about both uh spouse's sides of the family are like just so integrated, it's such a beautiful thing. Um God, I I've been trying to push that honestly with my wife's, you know, my mother-in-law's side, especially. And my sorry, the family, I really for a long time was trying to set up events where everyone would be there, or like set up dinners, or set up lunches, uh, things at the house, like, hey, let's let's get and unfortunately, nobody really put the effort in to kind of join me in that train. Nobody's unfriendly, actually, they all admire each other very much, but to actually create that kind of bond is one thing I really have always wanted. I've always kind of quote unquote dreamt of this massive family on both my spouse's and my side, and it never really came together. Um and I forgot where I was going with that.
SPEAKER_00:Um, we were gonna start talking about uh the band. Yes, thank you. Bring it back around. So back around town.
SPEAKER_02:That was a decent little rant, though. Um but you speak on if you want to speak on that stuff, because your memory's better on it, and ultimately you unfortunately were the one who got the the bad end of all that. You you lost the relationships, you you lost all that. So please speak on that, your experience and all that if you would.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, with when we started the band, I remember we all took a trip to Myrtle Beach in 2012. And there was, I think there was uh rumblings, ideas going around. Because you know Ryan and Paul, they already knew how to play guitar. Obviously, you're a drummer. The only thing that was missing was a bass player. Right. And I was hearing through the grapevine, you guys might be looking into that, doing something. They had, I think Paul and Ryan had somebody in mind that maybe they wanted to bring in as a bass player.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And on a personal level, I couldn't stand that motherfucker. So I was like, hey, these are my buds.
SPEAKER_02:God, I don't remember what that was. You don't even have to share it, but I don't even remember the fuck that was.
SPEAKER_00:Anyway.
SPEAKER_02:So now I do know I do remember. I do remember. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So no, I went and picked up a bass guitar and started picking at it and picked picked it up pretty quick.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, you didn't.
SPEAKER_00:And then everything just started everything just started fall falling into motion. Um started getting equipment and started practicing and those are good, yeah. Um so where it started with my downfall on a personal level with with the band was I had personal issues at home. I was not happy with my home life. Right. Um mental and physical level.
SPEAKER_02:Well, let's just say you had a shit ton of bad things going on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's as far as I'm gonna say about it. Um had that going on, and the whole purpose, a lot of the the big purpose in my mind too, once it got started, was that I wanted some kind of peace and solace in this band. I put all my effort and energy into this thing because it just felt like any kind it was the only kind of normalcy that I had. Right. So I put all my effort and energy in this thing, and I took it seriously, almost it what too seriously. Um didn't help. I was suppressing a lot of feelings that I had at home. I didn't share a whole lot. I know talks and I, Ryan would have me and Ryan would have you know, back when we used to work at Cracker Barrel and stuff. Right. Uh after work, sit in his car, I sit in my car, and or would just sit outside. Stand outside and just talk for hours at a time. Great conversations, we'd talk about life, a little about everything. Talk about you talk about college and how he's doing. I might have shared a few things with him, but I know I kept a lot of it back. And so me taking the band so damn seriously, it got to the point where I would get upset with Ryan and Paul if or even you, if I felt like someone else wasn't taking it as seriously as I thought it should be.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um I wasn't thinking we're gonna try and make it big or you know, we're gonna be full-time making money on the road, kind of band. Right. It was just something that I needed, it was like my therapy. Uh away from the craziness of home.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I took I took that too personally. Well, here's the thing, I mean, it Paul was busy with college, you know, and Ryan. They're doing their college thing. I wasn't, I was just working, and so I had the time on my hands to make it as serious as I wanted it. And I felt like if other people if other people didn't reciprocate that, I took it personally and I shouldn't have. Um, I'm not making excuses for my actions towards them or anybody, but that's where my mindset was. And I also had another family member that that helped get into my head, get into my ear about what we should be doing, how we should be doing it. If other people are taking it seriously, then they need to be gone. And yeah, I I took that advice and everything that was said to me, and I let it impact our friendships.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and here's the thing that that individual that you mentioned uh was someone who had some success as a band leader. And if that is what you cared about, like that was your therapy, that was your outlet, that was what you wanted to really pursue. And you're putting so much time and energy and and love, honestly, into it. And the reason I think that corrupted you so much is because you did trust that person at the time. And you trusted what they said about what you cared about. I think that's why you were manipulated, honestly. And I don't think this person was trying to manipulate you on purpose necessarily, but unfortunately, you know, with all the trust issues you had and your upbringing and the challenges that you've mentioned for someone that you you trusted at the time to be in your ear about what's right and wrong for this complete, honestly perfect outlet that you needed at the time, that did corrupt what you thought of the whole situation. And how couldn't it? I mean, you know what I mean. You you were very fragile at the time.
SPEAKER_00:I had that, and I'll and I was also um a huge perfectionist. I would be I'd get so pissed off and so quick to anger if I messed something up, if someone else messed something up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um bad is just my therapist. I just want it to go smoothly, I want to do something right with my life. Um, I remember times uh we'd be playing certain songs. I I I I couldn't play it. And it would piss me off to the point of like no return.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I remember. I mean, there were times you well, I mean, there were times that here's the thing. I mean, hmm, I don't mind doing my own horn here. I rarely quote unquote messed up. What I would do is overcomplicate everything. You know, I always had to play fucking odd time signatures over songs that were in, you know, famous songs that were in 4.4 and you know, like do all these fills and things. I wasn't playing to the to the the band. You know, I was playing for me, not for the band, and we'll get into late. I mean, we can get into it just now a little bit, is how when you grow up, that ego goes away. You know, yeah, I'm I've recorded drum parts for for friends now, like Ryan and a couple others that it I still include my own quote unquote, you know, little sticks and little gimmicks that I do, but it is subtle, it does fit the music. You can still incorporate your own voice, but keeping it you know, serving the music. But back then, you know, my my goal was to be the next fucking Virgil Donati. So everything I did was trying to just overcomplicate everything, which I know frustrated you as well. Um, and you you know, you would go down that down that path a little bit with me, but you you were probably in a way the most mature player of that band. And the reason I say that is because you learned the songs verbatim, you knew them left and right, and you were so aware of the lyrics, you were aware of the timing, the and I was too, but I didn't care about adhering to that. You know what I mean? I cared about oh, let's see how crazy I can make this part, that literally nobody in the band wanted me to do. But being that, if I can safely say, being probably the most skilled player in the band, I don't think anybody really wanted to challenge me on that too much.
SPEAKER_00:Well, like prime example of the anger with myself and how I how it affected you guys. Yeah, I don't know if you remember this, but you remember we were playing at Ryan's parents' house one night. Um I think it was some kind of get together for her mom or for his mom. Yeah. And we were gonna play uh hysteria by Muse. I do, yeah. In my mind, I could not play that right. You guys said that I played it fine, but in my mind, it did not sound right. I hated the way it sounded, I hated the way I played it. I got so pissed off, I just quit playing while everyone else was. I just shut my shit off and I walked away.
SPEAKER_02:I do remember that very distinctly.
SPEAKER_00:And then you guys stopped playing and y'all came out to try to find me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you were kind of were you like kind of hanging out back behind the cars or something? Yep. And and you literally you never told us really why you were mad. Um if I remember.
SPEAKER_00:I hated I I was such a perfectionist with myself. I hated the way I played it. I hated the way I played that song. It sounded like shit to me. I was embarrassed by it. And I felt like at the time, the only the only way I can get away from that embarrassment within myself was to just fucking stop and drop and get the fuck out of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and I mean ultimately that kind of thing was part on all of us. Because honestly, I I mean I knew you were a perfectionist, and it wasn't until the later time of the band itself that you and I really started talking about things. You know, you and I were not incredibly um close. Really the first major part of that, I think. Honestly, I don't know if you and I really got truly close until things started to kind of implode a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Um But that's how it hurt, that's how it hurt you guys. My behavior hurt you guys.
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah, and and we just didn't know what was going on. And the thing is though, you you I didn't know exactly all this approach you're just now sharing. Um but it totally makes sense. I mean, here's the thing. I mean, you remember I would get mad at the band because you guys didn't you know, if I would play on time signatures and shit, you guys wouldn't be able to do it. And that would piss me off because I had these I these honestly completely bullshit aspirations and ideas that okay, we were one to be a cover band, right? Well, what do cover bands do? They play the songs fucking verbatim, you know, that you just don't have cover bands that do what I was wanting to do. So, you know, that was stupid of me. You were a perfectionist to the point if anything was wrong. And I'd say you would even get more upset when you were playing something incorrect. Because I know you would definitely get yeah, you would definitely get on Paul and Ryan when they were off a lot. You know, if Ryan got the lyrics wrong or you know, Paul played out of time and things like that, you know, you you would definitely get very upset with them. But I distinctly remember most of the time when you would like walk off would be, I mean, apparently it was when you messed up, and I'm not sure I was fully aware of that, but now I look back, I'm like, shit, that is exactly what it was. Because you wouldn't tell us what was wrong, you know. You would just kind of just shut your shit off and walk off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was a a mix of all the above, whether it was me, whether it'd you guys, I didn't disclose, I didn't communicate that with you guys.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:And uh that's my fault.
SPEAKER_02:Um well, and again, we're all young. I don't care what any of us say. We were young trying to figure things out, and you know, you had you had circumstances that none of us did. I'm sorry, you did. Um now, whether you handle things quote unquote right or wrong, you know, whatever, but like you still had so much going on in your life that none of us did that was literally traumatic. So, you know, I I can tell you I know how much trauma warps your fucking brain. Like I'm talking in general, and you still handled things pretty stellar, uh, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00:Well, my one of my biggest regrets was um Paul. How uh how that how we handled Paul.
SPEAKER_02:Um well, yeah, and we should talk about that. I mean, so you know, uh Paul um was um obviously one of our dear friends, still one of mine, um, and unfortunately that relationship disintegrated uh during about for about six months because uh we were so h- up hoity-toity, high and mighty bullshit that we kicked him out of the band because uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was gonna give a little backstory on that one. Go ahead. Um so going back to the band being in my therapy, honestly, my everything I did at that point in my life. Paul was in school, right? And he was focused on school, he had guitar lessons, and he had a band, he had a lot of moving pieces going all at once.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Um He was also trying to get into the Jacob School of Music at the time, if you remember.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Uh there'd be times he would show up to practice, not prepared, didn't know what we were supposed to be playing or practicing that day.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And it'd been a slow burn over time, and that really irritated me.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Very much. Um it got to the point where I was talking to that certain family member about it. And that's where the idea of kicking him to the curb came from. Throwing him out in the snow. And at the time I thought, yep, that's that's exactly what we're probably gonna do. You know what? You're right. I'm gonna talk to the others and get their feelings on it and see what happens.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And so I was influenced to talk to, you know, all of us came together, talked about it. We all mutually agreed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. Um totally agreed.
SPEAKER_00:Shit, I gotta take a I gotta take a little step back from there. Me being irritated at all. Um I don't this this is the part where it's fuzzy with me. You guys are having better memory, probably, of it than I would. Um we're practicing. For some reason we stopped. Who was downstairs? You know where about you know where I'm leading up to.
SPEAKER_02:You want me do you want me to go ahead and talk about it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because I don't that that part's I know what I did, but I don't it's fuzzy of how it got to that point.
SPEAKER_02:So what happened is I mean, you know, we were playing and there was kind of I don't remember what the dispute was, but we ended up having to break because you know Paul and Ryan were kind of together, and you and I were, because you and I I think we're on the same page of what was wrong, and then Paul and Ryan were. So you and I were upstairs, you and I were kind of fuming, you you in particular, and then Paul and Ryan were downstairs, and then Paul started kind of bitching pretty uh pretty directly about what he thought was wrong, which obviously was directed at you, and you were in such a frustrated, fragile state that you ran down the stairs and you pinned him down and you slapped him around.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's what I remember. I remember hearing something.
SPEAKER_02:I don't even remember what the guy said. But you went you ran downstairs and and you you slap you literally slapped him around. You didn't really hurt him, but you you you you got him pretty good. And here's the thing, Ryan and I just watched. Um and I do the reason I watched, it wasn't that I was afraid to interfere. It wasn't about that. It was that I felt he deserved it, if I'm honest, and he knows this. Um, you know, he was really he was being a complete ass at that time about it. He was not he was being very like very um aggressive and using some language he shouldn't have been in that situation. Um so yeah, I I honestly felt he deserved it. So yeah, I I just watched it happen. And then, you know, you ended up getting off of him, and um, I frankly, I don't exactly remember completely what happened after that. I think you might have walked off. And I'm pretty sure I went with you to kind of help calm you down. And you know, Paul was pretty, you know, sh shocked by it, and Ryan was too, but honestly, I knew it was coming. You know I did. Um, because I was half tempted to go down there and start it on him myself. I think you just beat you beat me to the punch, plus plus he was targeting you directly. But you know, that was obviously that would have been obviously before we kicked him out, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so I mean, obviously that was that was a pretty big downfall, period. Um, and the fact is, yes, to physically attack anybody, especially a friend, um, was not good, you know. But here's the thing, I I didn't try to stop you. I don't think I egged you on, I'll say that, but I definitely didn't try to stop you. Um and I watched it happen, and so did Ryan. So I can tell you for sure why I did is because I thought he deserved it. And, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I was a pretty rough and tumble friend too. So um, you know, I would get physical with friends a lot to a point that was uncomfortable uh for them. Uh I was just kind of a rough kid that way. Um so you know, that is something that was just something that wasn't gonna affect me, because that would have been my fucking approach too, if I'd gotten there. And I think I would have. And honestly, I would have gone farther. I probably would have gotten much more um, much more injury. I would have injured him, probably legit. Um either way, kind of that was the big point of kind of implosion for the band. And then eventually, you know, like you said, your family member who was very close and very influential um on kind of the way the band should be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, um, kind of got in your head. And then um, you know, you we ended up you came to us and we agreed on it, by the way. Um, I was gonna go about it too. You know, and for the other for me and Ryan to pretend like we weren't would be incorrect. Um, I don't know if that's something that Ryan has owned up to or maybe even me publicly. I mean, I think behind the scenes I certainly have, but we were all gonna go about it because we were all like, oh, he is um a detriment to the band because he just wouldn't learn his material. That's honestly what the crux of it was. Um, you know, if he'd come in and really put effort into learning stuff and and things like that, I think we would have all felt differently. But yeah, you were the spearhead for it. There's no doubt about that. Um, but the fact is we were gung-po about it, too. I just think you we the Ryan and I didn't have quote unquote the guts or the um strength, if you want to call it that, to be like, you know what, this is what we need to do. But so, you know, we all ended up meeting in the living room at my house, and um, you know, we ended up altogether kind of deciding to kick him out. Now we did so gently, you know, we weren't trying to sever the relationship, that was not our goal. It really wasn't. Um, but of course, why wouldn't he have taken that badly? You know, all three of us, kindly or not, did ask our dear friend that, hey, we don't want you to be anymore because you're essentially fucking us up. Right? Um, so I look back, and here's my thing. I'm like, A, we were a fucking early college level fucking cover band. Like, what the hell? You know, I mean what are we trying to prove? You know, we had nothing worth severing a friendship over. And part of it, I mean, you and Paul really got strained, like really strained during that period. Um, and you know, during that time, Ryan definitely sided pretty heavily with Paul over things, and I was a bit in the middle. I mean, I I sided with both sides. I I didn't really prefer a side, but when that all officially in the end imploded, where you know, you you had nothing to do with them, they had nothing to do with you. I I did stay kind of connected to both sides for a while. Um but the fact is none of that on all of our sides was worth that breakup or that stress, or you know, that should have been fun. That should have been and it started off that way, I think for all of us. It started off exciting. It started off like, hey, yeah, it really did. Starting to fuck all of us, but then again, like we mentioned before, is we all had a different agenda. All of us did, and none of it was right because we well, not right, but we just didn't want the same things. So I think if we had actually just had the fucking conversations instead of being, you know, stupid um and being so uh bullheaded about things. But here's the thing again, we were young and we had these unrealistic ideations or ideas of what the band should be, and but oh the band, the band before everything.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I had so much anger, so I was so quick to anger about dumb shit because of issues that I had going on, and it was my failure to communicate that with you guys, because you guys were just left out in the dark. We were on truly feeling.
SPEAKER_02:For sure, and and that I would say that's really your fault.
SPEAKER_00:You had so much going on and you had to develop some I've carried so much weight on my shoulders over all these years of how I conducted myself, how I treated you guys.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, I know you did. I know you do, and I I imagine you still probably do to an extent. I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I I still do. Because uh Man, there was like some fucking time machine or some shit. That day I was charging after Paul. Man, I wish I'd go back and slap myself around. Hey, fucking get over yourself. That's your fucking best friend. You know, it's not realistic, but it's like, man.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but here's the thing. I mean, yeah, you went physical with him, but he was very much verbally attacking you as well. So both were wrong. Um, you just took a physical approach that kind of made it worse than what he was doing. Well, speaking, I would I would argue if he wasn't doing that, you wouldn't have done that. Right or wrong, I don't think you would have attacked him.
SPEAKER_00:But I don't blame Paul. Paul was completely valid with how he was speaking to me because I see now how I was then. So Paul had every right to say what he was saying. Uh and I own up to that. Uh in Ryan, I never gave Ryan his damn flowers. Like, I wish I would have told him how proud I was of him when he started learning to play and sing uh simultaneously. Uh I couldn't have done that. There's no way I could have done that.
SPEAKER_02:I can't do it.
SPEAKER_00:And I never gave Ryan his flowers for for doing that, stepping up to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that was all we did was.
SPEAKER_00:No, it no, it wasn't.
SPEAKER_03:Right, and we're gonna be. Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I'll be on his ass. And I'm and looking back on it, looking back on it, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, man? Like, do you not realize what he's trying to accomplish right now? And all you're doing is tearing him down, and you should be uplifting him and giving him some confidence. Because he would probably mess up because he knows I'm fucking right next to him. Gonna give him a death stare if he fucks up.
SPEAKER_02:No, and he and he will mention that you were you were very intimidating and and and definitely added a lot of pressure. So that that's for sure. But I did I did too. You know, I I expected a lot out of the band that I don't know that really most of if not everybody was really capable of doing, but like I said, I really wanted a different direction. But here's the thing, I I mean, yes, um you're you're absolutely accurate about all that, but don't you have to also let them take accountability for their part in it, and myself included. And I'd say especially Paul, because that that's the relationship that hasn't been mended and probably won't be, and and and that is that is on him, you know. And I'm I'm not gonna get heated or anything about it. It's not about that. You know, he really can't forgive that situation. And again, I yes, you you handled some things pretty rough, and your approach was pretty rough, but we all of us didn't know what you were going through, A. B, you weren't comfortable telling us because I mean I know a lot of what you were going through then now, and I can tell you that if those things were going on in my life, I don't know that I would trust really much many people back then, if anybody, with it because of maybe the reciprocations that could have of others knowing. You know what I mean? So there's just a lot that I'm sorry, you have to give yourself grace on too. Um, you know, there were a lot of things that were the perfect catalyst for what happened. And again, I I'm sorry, I can't I can't get off this horse. We were kids, that was 15 some years ago.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. I'm just I'm reflecting. You know, well, and you should.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah, and I'm not saying they're right and and they're not uh objectively, but again, and I'm not saying you have to you're not making quote unquote excuses, or you're you're really just trying to say this is why. And that's valid. Saying this is why I did it, it's not right, but you are taking accountability that you did it. You are taking accountability for asking for forgiveness, you are taking accountability for the fact that you've gone through a lot of pain ever since mentally and taken that weight upon yourself. And you know what? Nobody else has taken that weight on them or off of you. You know, um, Ryan and I uh have taken accountability for our parts in it, and I think Paul to an extent, but unfortunately, he was he was hurt really deeply by all that. And admittedly, you two are the ones who are butting heads so hard. And honestly, you two had the closest friendship.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we did. Me and Paul were really close.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's why both of you were so hurt by how that went. Um and being that you were a bit more of the aggressor in that situation, I think is why he he really struggles to to forgive or let that go. Um, and as I've said on here before, as I've said many times to him and even to you, it's like I would love it if he would hear you out, just hear you out, and just say, even shake hands and say, We're good. And if that's the extent of what happens the rest of this life between you two, at least in my opinion, which doesn't really matter because it's not between me, but in my opinion, that would be enough, you know, just to know that hey, we're good and it's forgotten, it's forgiven, it's whatever. Now, I don't know that how you feel about that. I think it seems like you've kind of said that, you know, that that's at least what you would want, bare minimum. Um, but you know, you you've you've done your part to you know say all this shit in front of all these people, um, and that's a big step, you know. I mean, to say this in front of 60,000 some people and and profess how, you know, clearly take accountability for for your quote unquote wrongdoings, and but also share why you did it is also a big deal. And the fact that we were kids and none of us understood what the hell anyway was going through, frankly, I was going through a decent amount of shit, you know, and I honestly I I Ryan was for sure. Um and I think Paul was just stressed out by a lot of what he was trying to do. And I mean, a literally a lot of the reason he didn't learn the songs is because he was trying to get into the Jacob school. So, you know, he was really focusing on those guitar parts, and unfortunately, he he never did make it in. And uh, you know, after I think a few years, he it took him a couple tries to realize that that wasn't gonna be his path. And of course, look where he's at now. He's a very, very successful individual. So honestly, it worked out. Um, I can tell you, you know, I made it into the Jacobs School. Um, I just I made it in. So and what's funny is, you know, I don't know if you I don't know if you remember the episode with uh Tony and Jay, but Tony tried to get in and he didn't get into the Jacobs school when he when he applied. And and I'm sharing this not to brag. I'm getting to a point. So, you know, he couldn't make it in, but you know, he ended up going to a different school and obviously became a world-class drummer, and he really wasn't able to do with it what he wanted. You know what I mean? He really never had the the career he wanted with drumming. And obviously, as I mentioned before, you know, he's really hit a slum with with his life and with his drumming, and to the point he doesn't even want to play anymore. Um, he really wants to just take a break and uh from live playing, from from gigging, all this, uh, from playing at home, all this stuff, because he's that. Disenfranchised with how drumming's been for him. Um, and of course I made it into the Jacob School, but I chose not to go because of expenses, because it was remote, so I would have had to live on campus, and I was mentally unstable and probably wouldn't have done very well living away from home, if I'm completely honest. And then the other thing was is that something in me told me that was not going to be a um a career I could make. Because here's the thing: I never had a desire to be in a touring band. I've never had that desire. I've never had because obviously that's where you're gonna make your money, you know. If you fight by some chance, and honestly, I I know a few people who are in bands that tour kind of regionally or even nationally, that they still have other jobs, you know what I mean? I mean, it's so fucking hard to make a career out of this. And I even have a friend uh who also who actually did get a degree from the Jacobs School, also has a second job, you know what I mean? So it kind of hit me when I applied, and yeah, it was amazing I got in because it's it's it always switches between it and Berkeley as the number one to number two music school in the country. So that's a pretty bad accolade in itself. But it is I can't take away the fact that that actually was the right decision not to go, because that would have been a shit ton of money, time, effort, stress, all this shit for something that just wouldn't have panned out. And I can be realistic about that. And it took Paul a long time, I think, to get to that point. Um and that was the wise thing. And I can tell you, I tell pretty much all young musicians, including my my nephew, who's an incredible piano player, is I'm like, hey, uh, I wouldn't pursue a music degree. Uh for one thing, you don't need a music degree to uh be a be a world renowned, whatever. If that's your goal, you don't need a degree to do it. Um getting a degree from Berkeley or any other shit is not going to make you on a world stage. Um, it's just not. Um you you have to be in the right place, right time, effort, luck, connections, you know, networking, all this shit. I mean, a billion things have to come together for that to be your sole income. But my thing was I wanted to simply play locally, especially jazz and fusion, and I did that for a while. Um, one of my uh professors at IEPY, actually, I played in his jazz band for a while at the mousetrap and at the chatterbox. So those are that's what I wanted to do. But that all plays into I was aware that the way I want to pursue drumming was not going to be lucrative for me to make a career out of it. And the fact that I was good enough to make it into the Jacobs School was enough for me. Because at least I knew I was I was a great player, and that was enough for me. But ultimately, there is a wisdom that comes with, hey, you know, you gotta know kind of your path. And again, that goes back to the band itself, is like playing into how young we were, thinking we could make something of that, or that that took priority over the friendships, over all of that was just fucking you know, it fucking retarded. You know what I mean? I mean, so stupid, and that disbanded everything. You lost contact with Brian and Paul, Brian and Paul lost contact with you, you know, you and I weren't as close as we were. Yeah, that was so stupid. And the fact is, we were not on a trajectory of being anything beyond a simple, fun little cover band. And that's okay, is what I'm saying. That's totally okay. Totally. 100% okay. And if we could have had that mindset as fucking stupid kids, I'm sorry, we were kids, college or not, we were fucking ignorant kids, thinking we were gonna be the next big Indianapolis fucking cover band. Give me a goddamn break. Like, you know what I'm saying? How stupid that sounds I look back now and I'm like, God, I was fuck we were fucking stupid.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe that's why I'm so hard on myself, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I I I wish the other I I can't imagine how all the four of us couldn't be hard on ourselves about that. I sure am. I mean, I look back and I think of how fucking stupid I was. And I look at all of us, by the way. I look at Paul, I look at Ryan, I look at you, and I'm like, you guys were fucking stupid with me. We were all dumb about it. And it's just like, look what happened. We were so close, the four of us, and the drama and stress and ignorance and stupidity around a fucking college bullshit cover band disbanded the whole thing. You see what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it yeah, it's it's fucking stupid. If Paul doesn't want to reconnect, you know, I can accept that. Well, you have. You have accepted it. Yeah, yeah. Well, for the listeners out there. Yeah. I have accepted it. Uh I'm not, I'm never, and I I won't and I never will speak ill of the guy. I won't. I just won't do it. That's just something. If he doesn't want to reconnect with me, I've made my peace with it. I'm okay with it. I mean, that's it. Is all I got to say about it. I mean, I would love to reconnect with him, at least just do a handshake, say, hey, we're good. If that's the extent of it. Officially it's over, we can all move on. No more grudges. No more grudges. And honestly, I feel I wouldn't feel like such a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I I think honestly, that is what matters to you is knowing that he's moved on from it. And honestly, I don't know, could you I guess you could argue he has. If he's not wanting to pursue even the moments of trying to reconcile just together on that level, if he's not wanting to pursue that, then maybe he has moved on. I got I don't know if you could argue that or if he doesn't want to even acknowledge it, or maybe he hasn't moved on because he's not willing to do that. You know, I don't know how you want to look at that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can feel and I felt his vibe the last time I saw him in person that he just wanted nothing to do with speaking or interacting. And I'm like, okay, no, I'm not gonna force it. And I didn't.
SPEAKER_02:And that's it. I mean, again, that that does show your maturity as a person and as a I'm not gonna force it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I I you can cut the tension with a knife. And I'm like, man, he does he he is he does not want this. I'm not gonna force it.
SPEAKER_02:I I have well, and you know what? You know what? You know who organized that? It was this motherfucker right here. Because I and I'll take blame for that. I was trying to give you two the opportunity to be like, hey, and because why? I wanted to fix it. I did. And I know you want to reconcile too, but you didn't you didn't come up with that idea.
SPEAKER_00:No, but he was willing to still be there, so I do have to give him props for that. I mean, he was willing to still be there, knowing I was gonna be there.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I think just maybe in the moment when he saw you, and maybe some feelings came rushing back, or you know, maybe he just like he saw you and remembered the the the anger he had and the frustration and the hurt. Maybe that just overcame what his intentions were. And as you know, you know, you can mentally prepare for something, get yourself built up, get yourself psyched, and all this shit, and then you're in the world.
SPEAKER_04:That's exactly what I'm going on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I know, I know that too. I mean, I know you were like, I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I can pull him aside and have a two to five minute conversation about this. And I felt that too. It's like, but you know what that I overstepped again. I inserted myself, which I've been known to do a lot, and honestly have caused some ones shoes that way. Um, because again, I try to fix things that I'm not capable of fixing that I have no business trying to fix, and um, it ends up kind of hurting everybody. Now, that one I don't think really hurt anybody, but I've definitely interjected before in situations where it certainly has.
SPEAKER_00:Um there is a point where you kind of alluded to the earlier. Um, you said you probably thought I was hurt by that. I wasn't hurt, I was disappointed. I was like, because I had just I was like mentally preparing myself, like hey, I'm gonna pull into the like you said, I'm gonna pull into the side and have a conversation, see where it goes. But then once it got there, I was like, fuck.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you just saw clearly you didn't want it, and you you did accept that. And what's interesting is uh if you remember, you know, at Max's party, my son, you know, um you you kind of you kind of left a bit out of the blue. I mean, you were just tired, you had your son there and all that, so you were tired.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, I was being honest. I was being honest there, I was just tired of it. I know you were ready to go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but you know what I did is I projected that you were mad at Paul, you were really upset, you were hurt. I projected that on you because that's how I felt. And I'm so guilty of doing that. Is like if I have a problem with a situation, I will project that that person also feels that way, and the other thing I'm really bad about is my insecurities. I will hardcore project that others feel that way about me, even though there's really no evidence to support that. Um so that's another thing I really do have a lot of struggles with doing um is projecting how I think others should feel and also how others feel about me. Um that's a very insecurity kind of based thing.
SPEAKER_00:Um but I'm just important, you know, but the most important thing that came out of Max's birthday party is that we were both able to be there for you, Katie, and Max for Max's birthday.
SPEAKER_02:So And that's pretty big. I mean, you guys were able to put aside whatever whatever feelings you had towards each other, and I obviously there was a lot of tension and awkwardness, but I never saw you guys. I mean, you kind of just ignored each other. You know, it was just like the other person wasn't there. And honestly, that's pretty damn big of both of you, honestly. Um, I can tell you if I was in that situation, like I was with somebody that let's say I was you in that situation, I was going in expecting to have this conversation with somebody and they just ignored me or didn't want any part of it, I would have been really mad and I would have I would have expressed that. I would have, no doubt about it. I would have pulled them aside, or hell, if it was bad enough, I would have done it for everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was nice to him. Like if we're walking kind of near the same direction and if I happen to get in his way or something, I'd be like, hey, sorry, excuse me, Paul. You but I'd be like, or sorry about that. You'd be like, oh no, you're good. Little things like that. But that that was the most that was the extent.
SPEAKER_02:And maybe, maybe that's the building blocks for healing, or maybe maybe that shows the acceptance both of you have. Because like I said, I wouldn't have done that. You know, if I was you, um, you know, and expected uh, hey, I'm gonna have this and all this stuff, and make sure we have this conversation and all that, and it didn't happen, I'd have been livid, and it would have came out somehow. Um and, you know, just with a bit of how unstable I am right now, and I've had, you know, in the past year, I've done some not great things uh when I've been quote unquote slighted, even though it wasn't really that big a deal. Um, you know the stories. Um, you know, unfortunately, that is my response is to attack. And I'm not talking physically necessarily, although that's been important, but it's just to attack out of protection rather than taking a second. So probably, you know, consider that hey, I'm projecting that they feel this way, or they're hurting too, or they're trying to process, you know, all this stuff. So it's all fucking complicated. But man, it uh for me it all just comes down to fucking acceptance is is a big thing. And like I said, you have come a lot farther in that journey than I have, because honestly, dude, I'm still at square one. You know, I I can't I can't even accept my, you know, I had a twin that was stillborn, Brandon. Uh, I don't I don't think I've ever accepted that. You know, I it goes that back that far. Um, you know, all this lack of acceptance, honestly, is probably what built to kind of the the fucking implosion I I had I've had. Um because it again, it's just not accepting anything wrong or that I disagree with or that I fundamentally have problems with, not accepting any of it. And like I said, now that I've hit, frankly, this purely depressive state, and I don't have the fight in me to be aggressive or angry about it, maybe by default that will just allow me to fucking accept it, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh maybe uh maybe that's that's what helped me.
SPEAKER_02:Um and that's well, that's exactly what I was going to because you did that. I mean, you I know you have struggled with anger, you've had incidents in the past, and you you can share them or not, but you've had some pre uh bouts of anger as I have in the past.
SPEAKER_00:Um I've l I've lost a job because of my anger. Yeah, you you have.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And grab someone by the throat, looking them up, throw them up against a wall. And uh customers happen to see it, I got canned.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and which you should be for that. I mean, and like I said, it's not and again well I don't want to go too please don't let me go too far down this rabbit hole because I don't want to. Like I don't want to say this and then help me move on because I will talk on this forever. But there is a thing of for a man wanting to exert um strength and even dominance and um you know, kind of power. You know, that is a thing a man wants to do, and I think often it's because we're all so damn knocked down. Uh, you know, we're not allowed to express sadness or or cry or anything like that. So the only thing, you know, what do men do? We blow up. You know, um, you know, the suicide rates among men just continue to go up and up and up. Um, so either, you know, do something stupid to others, usually through physical violence, or we um, you know, kill ourselves. And uh not justifying any of it, by the way. It's just again, it's it's one of those things that that that is why. Um so you know, I guess I think part of it is you felt so vulnerable and so so hurt and so lost, I think. That was anger was your route to expression and to venting and to awesomeness. That is all you had. And I mean you were one of the most angry people I knew, and I I hope that's okay to say. Um and honestly, and honestly, you're just like me, and you still have it, and you know, Katie, my wife, who absolutely adores you, um, probably weren't any of my friends, actually, definitely weren't any of my friends, um, will say that you have an extreme undercurrent of anger to you, as I do. Um, you're incredibly quiet, you're incredibly reserved, you definitely have moments of great laughter and enjoyment that you can visibly see. You and I both very much have a strong undercurrent of anger. And you have curbed yours a lot more than I have.
SPEAKER_00:Because enable you channel it differently.
SPEAKER_02:Well, like what you mentioned to me before is that you're able to channel it through leaning into your anxiety. Yeah. And I think that's actually a pretty neat approach, honestly, to kind of lean into another mental struggle in order to kind of uh deter the more uh aggressive, maybe dangerous one, if you can put it that way, um, from coming out. I think that's actually, and I think you kind of did that a bit subconsciously, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I I, on the other hand, you know, when I get truly heated, I have to take it out physically. So, you know, I got this fucking Bob punching bag in the basement that I really I wanted it shaped like a human. You know, um, and it was way more expensive than the than just a punching bag. But I had to have it shaped like a person because I wanted to feel like I was punching a person. Uh, it wouldn't have been enough to punch a bag. And honestly, I come down here still all the time, and I'll wail on that thing five, ten, fifteen minutes, and it does help. Unfortunately, I don't have a big trouble struggle with anxiety. I can't lean into that approach to to um kind of dispersing the anger. You know, it is something I have to physically express.
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's kind of why that's where it it changed with me instead of taking things, uh beating something up or punching something. Uh it's it'd turn into anxiety. Like I can't sit still, I'm jittery, I gotta be I gotta move around, do something.
SPEAKER_02:Well, when you get yourself out of the situation, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or I get myself out of the situation and then I do. Well, that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly what I'm saying. And unfortunately, you know, a a big thing with anger, as as I mentioned many times, is being aw trying to be aware of your triggers and knowing ways out. Or knowing ways of just not letting yourself get there to begin with. Because I mentioned many times, you know, um, that that is the biggest key to coping with anger. And by the way, obviously I'm not incredibly successful at it, but I can tell you that one thing I've found that really helps me now from even getting to that point is when I go to the store, when I go out in public, if I'm not with somebody and it's just me, because I know I can get triggered pretty hard, and I know I lean towards physical violence, physical, you know, um uh expression of anger right now. I will wear my AirPods. I wear them everywhere now, if I'm just by myself, and that's everywhere. Gas station, if I get out of the car to pump gas, I put them in. Uh, go to Walmart, go to a restaurant, and I eat by myself, always in. And I have usually pretty jovial, kind of relaxing or happy music on, like fucking shabozy, or yeah, well, not all of shabozy because he's got some depressing shit too, but like, you know, like a bar song or that kind of vibe, tipsy, you know, those kinds of vibes, and they do because there's been times, you know, I deal with uh uh a person in public or like a cashier that's kind of being a dick, or you know, things that probably most people could just like, you know, okay, he's an ass, or like maybe fight a little bit with him verbally and fuck off, you know, but not me. So that's a that is a coping mechanism that I've developed probably in the last two to three months that actually I would argue has kept me from getting not necessarily physically violent, but really angry in public. And I have to say that when I get to that level, I tank. Like I'm done for the day. There is no recovery from it for the rest of the day, and even days after, um, I will have that, and it's not an undercurrent of anger at that point. It's ready to explode if the next thing remotely ticks me. Um, you know, it's not something that dissipates, it remains. And that's one coping mechanism I've kind of found. And the other thing is if I get pretty heated while I'm out, I get home, first thing I do is come down here and beat the shit out of Bob. You know, so that's my coping thing. And I guess regardless, if you are coping, then you are succeeding in, you know, getting you know, maintaining that vice or whatever you want to call it.
SPEAKER_00:But uh and I also have my son to think about too. I don't want him seeing that side of me, and he just see you just see the calm guff that's gonna handle situations. Properly, and I don't want that passed down to him, to him thinking that's appropriate behavior.
SPEAKER_02:I'm almost sad you mentioned it. I'm glad you did. Legit. Because one thing I have so much guilt about already is when I get heated like that in front of Max. I've never done anything to sh to express physical violence in front of him. Right. But he definitely feels the undercurrent of anger. I can tell he does. And I can definitely tell you that I I've never yelled at anybody in front of him. Like at anybody, like Katie, Dad, anybody. That's not happened. But boy, have I yelled about things. I've yelled at the situation, not, you know, at anybody personally. But I get so heated, and I'm not justifying it, it's wrong. But I have so much guilt about even um exposing him to that at at one year old. Um I'm working on it. I am. I'm failing. Um, and that's something I I definitely haven't mentioned on the show, is something I I really am struggling with, and I'm glad you brought that up, you know, because it is something that's really hard for me right now, is kind of being careful a bit of what he sees of those sides of things. Um and uh that that's a hard one for me, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because you know, as kids get older, I mean their little brains are sponges, they see everything, they hear everything, they'll pick up all behavior patterns.
SPEAKER_02:They will, and and it I think it starts at his age. And the good thing is, I mean, I know he feels so loved by me, and he, you know, he's I'm one of his favorite people, and there is a point where it goes from he knows I'm being protective to I'm being just aggressive and angry. There is a difference, and it's it's you have to you have to exemplify that difference, I think. And as you said, their their minds are sponges even at that age, and I admittedly, I don't think he's I don't think he's been exposed to that side a lot. Um and I I I'm continuing to know when to get away to to go manage that on my own. And I will continue to work on that because again, that's just not something he needs to be exposed to. What I will protect him from is, you know, um certain people who are aggressive towards him or against somebody that that they love. Um there's a family member on Katie's side that is not very kind to certain members of the other, uh, certain other members of that side of the family, and I will not have him around that. Um I just won't. Um so you know, I can at least take solace, and I've never shown aggression towards anybody in front of him. Aggressions at situations, but not to somebody. And I think that's that's a that's a good distinction. But still, you know, still need to try to hide him from that while I try to figure my shit out. Um, but I will say that he has absolutely been one of the, if not the most calming source to me. Um, if I if there's ever there's been a lot of times I haven't felt loved, I haven't felt, and this is nobody's putting this on me. This is how I feel. I haven't felt love, I felt like a failure, I felt like a piece of shit. As you know, I there's uh often days I'm trying to find reasons not to fucking off myself. It's pretty common for me right now. And a lot of days it's a fucking struggle. But I can tell you, when that boy smiles at me or comes to me and wants me to pick him up or laughs at me, it it's pretty quick that those feelings dissipate. Or at least it's like maybe those maybe those feelings are still there, but it's like, you know what, he makes it worth all the suffering, you know. Um because I'm a big advocate that you know kids didn't ask to be here. They didn't. We didn't ask to be here, frankly. Uh, but kids did not ask to be here. So especially if you choose to bring them into this world, um, you need to take accountability for that and show them what they deserve as human beings, as young, developing human beings. Um I I'm very good about that. I mean, you've seen me uh with Max, and I've seen you with your son. Um, they love us to death, and you are certainly your son's rock. Um, and I'm definitely a primary to Max. So there there's there's a lot that goes with that, and a lot of importance. Um, that's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00:And I can't the biggest struggle with that, you just you said it perfectly, you know, about our children and how they can help us lift us out of that funk. It's even harder when you don't get to see them every day.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. Because you're not constantly reminded by their their presence of that. Yeah, that's hard. That's hard.
SPEAKER_00:But uh advise any listeners out there, don't don't take it for granted if you get to see your children every day.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Don't take that for granted.
SPEAKER_02:You're right. You're right. And one thing I can't fucking stand that I just feel like I'm seeing more and more, and you might be able to test this too, is just parents in public fucking yelling at their kids, calling them names, all this shit. I'm like, hey, what did you expect from a child? You know what I mean? Like, what did you expect? You know what I mean? Like, we all see kids in public, we all know they have their tantrums and their disobedience and their you know defiance and all this shit. But it's never okay to react that way. Ever. I don't care. Like, I can't fucking stand that. It's like, if this is how you're going to treat another human being, let's be real. Kids are an absolute financial burden, and it's not getting any cheaper. Um, hell, they've they've even uh cut the amount of tax benefits we get from them. See, and not what I'm saying is like to take on even the financial burden of a child um and choose that, you know, there's I'm not gonna get into the other situations around that. But if you choose to have a child and you and you everybody's aware of the financial burden of the time, of the you know uh love and energy and and that deprives you of a lot of things that you did in your life and the sacrifices and all that. If you if you choose to bring uh a person into this world, you can't take that shit out on them.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I mean I can't fucking stand that.
SPEAKER_00:Things I quickly picked up on and had to learn. Um, like you said, if if kids are out there having a super tantrum, you're out in public. Uh your best piece of advice is take them out to the car, get away from the public, go into a little private setting, have a chat with them. If that don't work, then you need to leave. Because you don't need to be taking doing all that in public, and for one, you're making an ass of yourself. Two, you're doing nothing but harm to the child. Well, you're making an ass of yourself. You're making an ass of yourself. I I I I've I've never understood why people want to scream, yell, call names, curse at their children out in public and out loud for everyone to hear. Like, no.
SPEAKER_02:I certainly don't get it. I I really don't.
SPEAKER_00:I I don't agree with it at all.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I just don't like the fucking vibe of treating your kids like a nuisance.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I've seen I've seen uh other parents spank their children out in public.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't like that either.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, hell no. Like I'm not saying anything about not spanking. I mean I'm I'm pro that, but doing out in public, no, that needs to be in a private setting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean you just because the benefit is that we're yeah, for one, it does nothing, it doesn't do any good.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna have people out there that may see this happen in public and want to report you to GPS BCS for child abuse. I know for a fact that's happened before with someone.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and the fact is, I mean, anything is considered abuse now, period, you know. So we've gotten too protective. I mean, not there's a limit, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, not everything is is you know harmful. Um but that's a whole nother thing. In fact, you and I are gonna get do an episode about that at some point about some of that. But um either way, um yeah, I guess I don't know really where else to go with all this, uh, unless you got something you want to share, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's pretty I think it's uh wrapped up in a nutshell. I think that's wrapped up.
SPEAKER_02:That's a wrap.
SPEAKER_03:That's a wrap.
SPEAKER_00:We're about to venture into part three.
SPEAKER_02:Part three, guys. That's gonna be the the really big one. Yeah, I've got it, uh you know, you and I have talked about what part three will be, so yeah. We we've even touched on some of that in this episode. So anyway, um I know you gotta get stay tuned for more. Um I know you gotta get up early and go fishing. So uh I will let you go for now, but dude, another great episode. A lot of cool, a lot of awesome insights and depth came out of it. Uh always can count on you for that.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm also not I'm not sick this time around either.
SPEAKER_02:I know. I know you're not doped up on uh NyQuil during the day. Um that's what happens.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I took nighttime NyQuil right before we pressed record on the first episode. Yeah, I didn't mean to do that.
SPEAKER_03:Not only were you sick, you took you took the day.
SPEAKER_00:I I meant to take the day quill, but I took the night quill before we pressed record.
SPEAKER_02:I know they put the fucking the Dayquill in the blue bottle and the NyQuil in the in the orange bottle, and you can't help that. That was a factory error, my friend.
SPEAKER_00:Um and uh running uh borderline 102 degree fever during that whole episode. You wrote what's funny is you really couldn't tell. Like Oh man, I was sicker than a dog. You're pretty sharp.
SPEAKER_02:You're pretty sharp. Well, anyway, my friend, uh great to have you again, and we'll look forward to part three. Probably get that recorded fairly, fairly soon. Um, anyway, love you dearly. Hope that's not gay to say in front of all these people.
SPEAKER_04:Love you too.
SPEAKER_02:Uh uh chicken such asshole.
SPEAKER_00:Chicken such asshole.
SPEAKER_02:But uh clear I can't remember what Randy says during that.
SPEAKER_04:There are cameras in here? Yeah, it's Mirror's marriage.
SPEAKER_02:Um anyway.
SPEAKER_04:Sharon the Bat Dad.
SPEAKER_03:Sharon.
SPEAKER_02:The best cat. Oh my god. That's another one I could quote all day long. Anyway, um trying to think of a Spongebob quote to end this on. Um oh I know. Did you set it to wombo?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was gonna say, make sure you turn set this to wombo. Make sure you set the make sure you set this to wombo when you listen to it, you know. You wombo. He wombo, he she, he she wombo. Alright, my friend.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you you go get some sleep. Um, and we will we will do part part three uh in the near future.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, my friend. Sounds good to me.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, buddy. Well, thanks for joining us. This is Bottom Huey, aka Beat the Mental Health Out of It with the Defective Schizo Effective. We're uh this is our second interview, my second interview, with the Guffinator, aka Guff, or Josh Guffy. So um, thanks for joining us. And Guff, where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you can find me on TikTok. Uh have my initials J-A-G and my son's initials, K-G-G. So J A G K G G. I think is I think that's all I got. 7659, maybe? On TikTok. I think it's on Instagram. Just find my name on Facebook. Uh I'm on the struggle bus on Discord if you guys want to join that and join the discussion.
SPEAKER_02:Look at you fucking dropping the struggle. I forgot about the struggle bus.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, we're all on the struggle bus, and we're trying to get more people on it with us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, making more bus stops. Loading up the loading up the crazies. Alright, my friend. Well, I will let you go. Um, we're gonna end this episode on a bit of a different tagline, which I shared earlier, which is Laughter is the best medication. So let's take our fucking fucking pills. Bitch. Alright. Thanks for listening, and stay tuned for more.
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