Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
If you live with mental illness — or love someone who does — and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast with dark humor and lived-experience truth. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and frequently joined by co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we have brutally honest conversations about serious mental illness, trauma, and the real-world systems that shape mental health. Topics include schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, psychosis, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction recovery, religious trauma, psychiatric medication, disability, good therapy, bad therapy, psych wards, and practical real-world coping — plus relationships, family dysfunction, work, creativity, and society.
You’ll hear:
- Lived-experience perspective from someone navigating psychosis, relapse, parenting, and recovery in real time.
- No-BS conversations about what helps, what doesn’t, and what the mental health stigma gets wrong.
- Dark humor and honest storytelling that educates and humanizes instead of sensationalizing.
- Interviews with everyday people, professionals, and notable guests, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are.
This show is for anyone trying to survive therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos — or trying to understand a loved one who is. If you want language for what you’re experiencing, conversations that don’t flinch, and a judgment-free vibe with some laughs along the way, you’re in the right place.
We’re not your therapists — we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark Humor Conversations On Mental Health, Trauma & Society
Men’s Mental Health, Toxic Masculinity & Vulnerability | Josh Guffey
In this thought-provoking episode, we delve into men’s mental health and the intersection with toxic masculinity and feminism.
Join us as we uncover the critical issues of suicide risk and the strengths that men carry, challenging the notion that "toxic" equates to masculine.
This candid conversation opens the door to emotional containers, respect, and personal responsibility—essential elements for showing up authentically in relationships, whether at home, on dates, or with friends.
We explore what it means to 'show up' for men today, discussing how vulnerability is supported by strong emotional containers, the costs of traditional strengths, and the realities of navigating dating dynamics filled with resentment loops.
Furthermore, we cover essential communication skills such as boundaries, conflict etiquette, and the significance of consent and respect while demystifying real masculinity versus its cartoonish portrayals.
How can men achieve real courage, responsibility, tenderness, and self-control on their journey to equality among the sexes?
Check on a man you care about today—ask one REAL question and stay for the answer. Then post your question (and his consented response style) on our Discord "The Struggle Bus" so we can help you build a better understanding. (link below)
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.
We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
...A one, a five, six, seven, eight. Man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man.
SPEAKER_01:Woo!
SPEAKER_03:Is that about as far as we need?
SPEAKER_04:Is that was that bad enough? I feel like it was. Welcome to the hooey. Bottom bottom? Bottom hooy. Of your bottom. I've done that. I've done that one before. I I prefer the top hooey. I like some bottom hooies. Preference Guff?
SPEAKER_02:Whatever I can get, these. Wait a minute. We're not talking about men, though, right?
SPEAKER_04:Well, this is. I don't want to. This is three pets, three fags and a big black mic.
SPEAKER_05:And a dream.
SPEAKER_04:And a dream.
SPEAKER_05:Off to a roaring start. As usual.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay, fellas. You know what we're talking about. I do. Bitches and hoes.
SPEAKER_01:All these bitches and all these hoes.
SPEAKER_04:You know, one of my favorite songs is As Titties. As and titties. It's a good song. Love it. Why do you laugh? You know this valley always card. Okay, fellas, we're talking about men. Men. Manly men. Um, so the the whole idea of this one is as uh we're not really aiming to shit on ladies or uh unless they like that. No clue. Unless they're into that. Unless they're into that. No clue steamers. No, this is gonna be a bit ranny. It's gonna be a good time. You got three frustrated fellas. And we're gonna vent um and we're gonna talk about stuff. Buckle up. Buckle up. Alright. All right. So actually, we're not gonna adhere to a script, but I I did lay out talking points. It's long. As many of you have uh suggested that we do. So you know what?
SPEAKER_00:Get to the damn point.
SPEAKER_04:So I have six seconds. Sections. Um boy. So we're gonna proceed through them and you know stuff. Um okay. Section one, fellas. Article Article Two.
SPEAKER_05:Uh legit, this is a long document. He is not kidding.
SPEAKER_04:No, I put it, I put this together.
SPEAKER_05:You ladies, you pissed him off.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's it's uh I'm reading my uh divorce paperwork all over again. Did you read it word for word? No.
SPEAKER_04:Oh.
SPEAKER_05:Are we gonna have a party?
SPEAKER_04:I just knew the divorce was I just knew the divorce was happening, and I signed the damn thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I just signed it. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so section one. The burden of protection and masculine duty. Right. Duty.
SPEAKER_05:None of them has protected me at all. The women. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So at all. Yeah, I mean, wow, just keep doubling down. Uh so um, you know, I got some talking points here. Okay. Um I I have to say, you know, uh, even myself, you know, I'm in a very healthy relationship. Um and thank you, thank you. I mean, it's but it is work. It's not like it's it's you know, we we've had our own struggles. But yeah, what I wanted to say about that is there is an element of of protection that is placed upon me, and I know you fellows as well in your relationships that is unique to a man. Um we are expected to be the protector. And I think that's a role that's been kind of established for us. I think it's subliminal.
SPEAKER_05:I mean And that's the other thing. What what which side of the bed do you guys sleep on? One closest to the door or furthest away? I am closest to the door. On purpose. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I've experienced both.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's never been.
SPEAKER_04:Do you really think about it or just whatever side you're comfortable on?
SPEAKER_05:Side I'm comfortable. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. About it. You've heard it here. Not the four out of five dentists, but at least the three out two out of three men. Sleep by the door. I don't know. Back door. Hey, there's actually a study in that one. There's real dentists, so I don't know. Trying to bring credit dentists out there.
SPEAKER_04:There are people who clean our teeth that don't sleep by the door. Don't sleep by the door. We need to look up those statistics. Yeah. Um, but but what's interesting about that to me, and I was thinking about it, is yeah, that's an innate thing I think most men are born with. It is the natural thing we want to be the protectors. And while that comes with its own inconveniences and pressure, I take pride in that. Agreed. You know, I I'm okay being the protector. I don't know that and this isn't meant to be derogatory towards my wife or anybody. I wouldn't trust anyone else, and probably even another man, really, but I certainly wouldn't trust anyone else to be the protector. You know, and I think that's something to take pride in.
SPEAKER_05:Um would we all agree that that is a leadership quality? Sure. I think by default, yeah. So I mean I think it definitely gets categorized. And whether whether you think it's innate born into us, or whether I, you know, it's taught through gender roles or however deep we want to get into this, no uh gender studies degree necessary, but we I think we all um have experienced that it is not even just innate to us, but the opposite gender comes to expect it from us as well. And so it's really just sort of this agreed upon, unspoken, this is the way it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's not one of the gender rules they fight.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'd say so. And and and I I said I don't know that I have a problem with that one personally, honestly. I No. You know, it's like, you know, I'm not working right now, I'm not providing money, I'm not doing that. But what I can say is I make sure those damn doors are locked and everybody's secure and and all that, and that's something that I know I know my wife expects, and I also don't mind that being expected. I mean, that particular thing. There are other things that are expected of men uh that are that are probably aren't as right.
SPEAKER_05:So we starting with the soft the soft with soft pitch right now. Oh yeah, we'll get there. The easy ones. Yeah, we gotta get mad first.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, we gotta get it. No, actually I d I organized it. Oh, you did. I did. I I really put a lot of work.
SPEAKER_03:Very nice.
SPEAKER_04:So um uh men, the organizers. Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_05:Structure. Maybe, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I'll tell you what, structure is everything to me, um, which I have a complete lack of in life right now, just due to having an eight-month-old puppy and um a uh one-year-old son. It's in and I will say uh my wife has really come together and picked up some things um that I wasn't expecting that she she did pick up. Well, I mean, like um more more house chores that that I wasn't expecting. And you know, I think I said on here, and she would not have a problem with me saying she's not a very um organized um uh queen person when it comes to keeping things tidy. Um, you know, we uh to give an example, you know, when she lived in an apartment with her friend, um my dad, you know, managed those apartments and he had to pay to have the carpet and the curtains uh because she was that bad. So um and you know her family makes fun of it too.
SPEAKER_05:She came to live with you because she got kicked out of the apartments.
SPEAKER_04:Well, uh the only reason she that happened is because we moved into an apartment together, and that is something that over the years, you know, I I fought against to make sure things were maintained, and it was just like a lot of the time apartment complex will do that anyway.
SPEAKER_02:Like the carpet.
SPEAKER_04:That is true, that's a good point. Right. But you know, her don't don't don't no, don't do that. She's terrible.
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm not discouraging that.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I mean it was at least the apartment complex was not gonna be able to reprimand. You at least can roll up the newspaper and go, no.
SPEAKER_04:But what I was gonna say is I mean legally legally you can no but you know what we're kidding.
SPEAKER_03:Are we? No. Yes, no, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_04:What do you think? Yes. But but what I was gonna say is, you know, that um that is something that I had honestly just given up on a whole lot. I was like, this is a losing battle. I don't want to have to spend forever cleaning the house and then two days of being torn up. So, but what I was gonna say is, you know, ever since Max, you know, those things are actually starting to bother her. And she's picked up flat. So I guess I'm giving her credit from picking for picking up things that I wasn't really expecting.
SPEAKER_05:Actually, I think you also hit on a bigger topic. Go for it.
SPEAKER_04:If it's irritating enough, we give up?
SPEAKER_05:No. They'll do it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh. I was saying if it's irritating enough for it.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_05:That's the th but okay, so I'll I don't think it was on your list, but simp, being a simp, right? Simping, giving every little thing. God damn it. I'm the most ignorant motherfucker in the world. What is a simp? Simp, beta. No, a beta, okay. Yeah. Okay, so someone who just like, oh, you're my world, I love you so much. There's no irritate in that. Yeah. Like it doesn't motivate. Right. It m it creates complacency. That is true. It's getting into a little deeper topic, but let's stay with the the carpet and you swatting her with the newspaper.
SPEAKER_04:There's not really much more to it.
SPEAKER_05:He told us about that, by the way. Just your head whipped around pretty quick on that one. I'm just kidding. He did not tell us that. Okay? We're playing right now?
SPEAKER_04:I don't even know.
SPEAKER_05:He never actually used a newspaper.
SPEAKER_04:Are you saying I backhanded her or something?
SPEAKER_03:No. We will ask the questions.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Knock knock. Who's there? Are you gonna don't know? Are you gonna win basket? No, I will not.
SPEAKER_02:All right, back to the point. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you're gonna be here. This is what we do, though. See, he listens to it, and he's probably thinking all the time, like, Jesus.
SPEAKER_02:You got 75,000 people telling you, hey, topic, bullet point.
SPEAKER_04:No, you're right, you're right, you're right. But you know, we we still gotta be our again.
SPEAKER_05:If you give them everything they want, yeah, they don't listen. They won't respect you either, right? So you gotta meander a little bit. Yeah, you're meandering, yeah. So I mean, but feel free to grab a newspaper for either one of us.
SPEAKER_02:I bet there's a guitar.
SPEAKER_05:That would require that I read.
SPEAKER_04:I'm just kidding. You know we're dumb. We don't do that. Yeah, we're men. We don't read. We're men. Um we just read Playboys, we read them for the articles. Yeah. For the articles. Yeah. You know, particularly.
SPEAKER_01:I never thought these stories were real until it happened to me.
unknown:Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:But you know, uh kind of to segue it to like what's funny is that that's even represented in movies. What, dumb guys? Well, yeah, for sure. That's more TV shows and seconds. Well, it's gonna be like more like movies as far as the protecting aspect. Oh. Yeah. You know, all the vengeance movies, it's like taken. Liam Neeson's going after him for that. And uh one that really stuck out to me is John Q. Have you guys seen that with Denzel Washington? Oh, yeah. Okay, so you remember I have you seen it?
SPEAKER_07:Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_04:So it's when his son has to have this heart operation and the hospital won't pay for it because the insurance or insurance issue, yeah. And uh they won't pay for it. So, but what does his wife do? Do something, John. Do something. And then he goes and holds the emergency room hostage and all this shit to get the surgery done. To get the surgery done, and there's a point where he's even going to give his own heart, but the problem is he's an adult. So honestly, I'd really thought about that. The man wanted out. He's like, you know what? Well, I know this heart isn't gonna do Jack's shit, but I'm done.
SPEAKER_02:He's gonna sacrifice himself for his son. Right. Too.
SPEAKER_05:But he and he was, but it is.
SPEAKER_04:Right. But I guess what I'm saying with that is clearly his heart wasn't going to work. But he was going to go through with it. You remember because he was telling James Woods, who was the doctor, he's like, just go do it. You have to, and he was like holding the gunpoint, do it. But clearly he was like, the heart will not work. Your heart is not compatible. So I think it even goes maybe deeper, and I don't know how much is actually in the subtext, or I like to read into things that aren't there.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, you hear over and over, we've all seen Titanic, right? Yeah. I mean There was enough room on the fucking door. All right. Oh, that's but poor Jack had to stay in the freezing water. Fucking died for no reason.
SPEAKER_04:I'd probably die for Kate Winslow. Nope. Nope. That would be a horrible death. Freezing death in the water. Yep. And she said she wouldn't let go. And she did. And she let go. I mean, he was dead. Jack should have just dumped her fucking overdone.
SPEAKER_02:Kick her down there like Christmas story, kicking Ralph in the tooth.
SPEAKER_01:Fuck you. It's cold. What the fuck do you mean?
SPEAKER_04:Well, there's a whole thing of like they could have taken turns. I don't know. But that is definitely something that we've been made. It's made been made fun of for years. Yeah. I think that's one that everybody can make fun of. And even I've even heard women laugh about that.
SPEAKER_05:But it also alludes to the phrase women and children first. Yeah. I mean, that's where that comes from. That whole idea of if you are a protector, then you are ready to give the ultimate sacrifice to follow through on that promise. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And and I will say I won't talk too much on this because she's going to be on the show. But my friend Rachel, who you know very well as well, is going to be on. And yeah, you Rachel. Rachel! Rachel! Um But she's um gonna be on here and talk about many of those things from a feminine perspective of someone who's in the army, which she's got some really big balls. Yeah, honestly. And and uh she uh her hot takes are pretty pretty strong and I think could rattle some cages even for for the ladies, which is not a bad thing. No, it's not a bad thing.
SPEAKER_05:It's awesome that all of it is all of it is rooted in her life experience. Exactly. It's not it's not some dogmatic principle she's been handed. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And one thing I think her own beliefs. And one thing I love better, I mean, I think we learn far more from experiences than education often.
SPEAKER_07:For sure.
SPEAKER_04:Um not that education doesn't have its value, but when you're talking about people, um, I mean that's why I've leaned so heavily into everyday people on this podcast rather than getting the clinicians. Um not that I'm against that, but I want to lean into what's your experience. That's what we're relating to. Um of course data's important and all that, but you know, I think it has its place. Um but I just you know I I think it is interesting how even in in uh movies, especially, how it's pretty much I I can't really think of many films where you know the the female is the one who protects the family. I mean, there's definitely vigilante films like uh where the woman's a badass and and and and definitely can uh do revenge and all that stuff, but it's not usually out of protection.
SPEAKER_05:It's no, and usually if it if it's the feminine doing the revenge, it's this elaborate plan versus physicality.
SPEAKER_04:And uh spontaneity, too. Huh? I I think it's out of spontaneity for the men, too.
SPEAKER_05:Right, it is spontaneous. Right. Let's go to your devil versus versus planned out. Yeah, I agree with that. Because if you look at um is it Gone Girl? Am I thinking about it? Gone girl one? Where is this elaborate plan? Um Talk about elaborate Well, and then you've got what Simple Favor? Yeah, I know that one too. I mean Have you seen that one?
SPEAKER_02:No, not that one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's another one where it's like it's this elaborate plan to dupe someone, right? To frame them or, you know, get so it it just I I do agree with you on the spontaneity piece and that it is a little more I guess I feel like it's a little more altruistic than the the sacrifice that you see the feminine make, especially portrayed in movies. Um because it does ours is a little more there is an immediate need, we meet that need. The other is more like, oh, I was wronged. I'm gonna put a plan together and very different. Um so but to have that expectation, I mean I think if there were equality, right, which feminism says that it it pushes for. If there were equality, there would be equal numbers of women stepping up to get in the army or any of the armed forces. And and that's a nice setup for your friend when she comes in. Oh, she's got a whole dating plan, which is awesome.
SPEAKER_02:I'm looking forward to that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, me too. And it and it also it alludes to one of the things we talked about earlier, and that's the force principle of you know, the the principle I alluded to earlier in a conversation that was on a different podcast with some other more I don't know, are they red pill? I don't know that they're red pill, they're just more men's, right? Because I'm not the whatever podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, the whatever the whatever podcast name. Yeah. I mean, they're probably red pill pretty heavily.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. I I don't listen enough.
SPEAKER_04:I just see that they think that I would call them that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Okay. Well, but the force principle of if if there was a need for force and that person that was using the force would end up being dominant, right? There's only one way that ends. Yeah, you're right. Right. You're right. But but that also is the to me, that's the other side of the coin of self-sacrifice. Right. If you're gonna be willing to sacrifice to that level, go to the verbatim. There has to be an understanding of your verbatim example.
SPEAKER_07:Hmm?
SPEAKER_04:Do the verbatim example from that. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Oh.
SPEAKER_04:Um It's a concept, so throw it out there.
SPEAKER_05:Well, okay, so um I think his name is Andrew, mentioned something about, because I want to quote people that actually did it. This is not my own work. Um talking about the force principle, saying that if we all woke up tomorrow and uh men decided, okay, women are gonna be slaves, that could happen by the end of that day. If women woke up one morning and said, Men are gonna be slaves, do we think women would overpower men to make us slaves? No. I I don't. Um there's really no question who has the more brute force, which is why we're asked to sacrifice.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And and I I think I mean the thing is on that particular one, I'm okay with that. Yeah. No, I'm okay with it too. But what's interesting is that the the other things it comes with, so you know, you look into that and the pressures that that causes and the stress, and and it goes beyond protecting physically. It goes on to wanting to be the provider. It goes on like monetarily and and take care of the household as far as like handyman tasks and and the physical labor. And it's not that some women don't do that.
SPEAKER_05:No, and women can. And they can, yeah. And and I don't give that example to say, well, then you should kneel before me if I have to. More about that of us. It really speaks to what are our purposes. Because I don't I specifically don't want to say gender roles. I agree with that. But what is our gender purpose? Right. And if we can truly lean into what the purpose of each gender is, I think we live happier. I think we definitely live more harmoniously. Yeah. Because it I and if we're talking about movies, okay, the token female in every Marvel superhero story, why? I mean, I guess because we want a female audience. Or we want some eye candy for boys to look at on the film. I mean, I'm not saying they need to take it out. What I'm saying is the whole reason it's there is to give this illusion of equality at this point.
SPEAKER_04:And I I will say one thing that frustrates me, and I I've actually talked to a couple ladies about including my wife, is that um I want to include her. Like I, you know, I but because I think she would feel comfortable, I'd try to vet that pretty carefully. But, you know, is that it's like when they came up with, you know, you have Spider-Man, then there's Spider Woman, Batman, Batwoman. It's like Hulk, she hulk. It's like, here's the thing is that they're already established as male characters. Right. Instead of um, you know, creating a subcharacter that is completely the female version, come up with organic female characters. Right. Hold space for the actual feminine.
SPEAKER_05:Because, I mean, and what I was chuckling about is the thought in my head is like, if you want a true female superhero, and I'm probably gonna get in trouble for this statement. But I'm not married, so it's okay. I can sleep tonight.
SPEAKER_04:Um I just won't uh acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_05:Her superpower would be talking so much that that super villain would be like, all right, all right, shut up. I you know I can't. I know that was bad. It was but you know, I was going for the joke. So that was funny. I went for it. Um but ultimately Thanks for the support over there.
SPEAKER_04:He's a he's a he's a hard laugh. Oh god. He's a hard laugh. Hard left? He's a hard laugh.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, hard laugh. Definitely not hard left.
SPEAKER_04:I was gonna say hard left.
SPEAKER_05:We're gonna I wish I could. No, definitely not left.
SPEAKER_04:That would be stranger in the tub. What? Well, if you go lefty, like it's like there's a stranger.
SPEAKER_02:Where'd the stranger come from? I didn't put him there. You put him. What'd you do, Nick? No.
SPEAKER_04:More than you. I don't even know what's happening. I don't either. Am I being gaslit? I don't know. Are you don't gaslight the mentally ill. We're already gaslighting our damn selves. Can't happen. Can't happen. Men in the room. There are men. Men are talking. That's fine. So those ladies listening, you shut up and listen to the podcast.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Wait, didn't for this episode we hired Carlita to do it.
SPEAKER_04:We did have Carlita, which is Yeah. Well, really, we named her that. Her name's not actually Carlita. It's just, you know, we always have Carl. Yvonne. I don't know. I don't remember her name, but we just like, hey, you're you're Carlita now.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:When you leave the studio, now you can be whatever the hell your actual name is. But um the whole men are talking principle. I gotcha. You know, I joke with Katie about that a lot. I actually do. Well and she finds those jokes funny. I excuse me. I'm talking. I'm man. She does find it funny.
unknown:Huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You can have humor about this shit. Sure, yeah. Everybody knows we're kidding. Um okay, so this is definitely where I wanted to go with this particular topic. Okay. So um back to the protection thing. Yes. Why is doing often the put my phone down, right thing, um, considered weak or or even beta. So give some examples. Well, I wanted to use an example of our friend. We have a good friend who Oh, my amigo?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Who we talked about on the pre my very close amigo. That's what we should do. Whoever's talking should raise up, and the other two should work. Go ahead. But this is a really powerful story, and I think this is worth exploring.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, yeah. Go on. Yeah. So my very special amigo had an incident with um his ex-wife's affair partner. And uh this particular person uh put his hands on my friend's son, threw him up against a wall, left bruises all of his arms, and uh so my friend found out about this and contacted his ex-wife. She came over, had the child explain to his mother exactly what happened down there during that vacation, and uh she was very upset, rightfully so. Yeah. Um I told my friend that she should have packed her shit and left that night if he's willing to put hands on a child.
SPEAKER_04:Period.
SPEAKER_02:Period. Like no questions asked.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, it was a moment of weakness.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was a moment of weakness, and you don't know what you're gonna do in those situations until you're actually in it. He said he'll never do it again. I could tell you or I'm gone. For me, it'd be a one and done thing. Yeah, I I no no second chances.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, not on that.
SPEAKER_02:Like you're fucking gone.
SPEAKER_04:Not on that.
SPEAKER_02:It's not your place, it's not your child. Right. You're some empty-headed dumb fuck that couldn't stay loyal to his wife and his own fucking children.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Then you take out anger on a five-year-old.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Go to hell. Um so my amigo contacted that affair partner and uh told him, hey, this is what's gonna happen. You are going to come over here and apologize to my son. I don't even know it's 10 o'clock at night, I don't give a shit. You're coming over here to apologize to my son, and in turn, you're gonna apologize to me. And then he wouldn't say anything. Yes, no, maybe, kiss my ass, go to hell. Can I get a response, please? Yeah. Uh do I have to do this right now? Is this negotiable?
SPEAKER_04:Talk about alpha beta.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, it's not negotiable. And so if you can go out of your way to put your hands on that child, you can go out of your way to apologize to that child. I don't give a shit if he's a good idea. And your friend too.
SPEAKER_04:He wanted he wanted to be apologized too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But so yeah. So, you know, he was like beating around a bush, didn't want to do it. I guess you don't give me other options. No, you don't have an option, motherfucker. You're gonna do it. So he did come over, he apologized. But my friend said he struggled because when the dude showed up, he wanted to rip his fucking throat out for putting hands on his son. But what's that gonna do for the child? What's that gonna do for him? Police will get called, he'll get arrested. What's that gonna look like to his son? Seeing his dad in handcuffs. So they shook hands, the guy apologized, my amigo pulled him in, said you're not gonna fuck with my son. Do we have an understanding? Yeah, we got an understanding, and he left. Right. But the thing is, like my friend struggles because he he feels like a bitch that he didn't rip his fucking throat out. Right. Like he wanted to kick his ass right then and there, leave him. Yeah. Graveyard dead. Yeah. But no, he let the he told the guy he forgave him, shook his hand, but did give him that warning.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like, don't fuck with my son. Right, right. But it's like, why do we have that perception that that's weakness? Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, actually that's strength, because I can tell you if I was in that situation, I wouldn't have the strength to do that. I I can't tell you how much.
SPEAKER_02:Like, why have we in a society if you you get so if you if someone deserves to be punched in the fucking face, like, you go to jail for that shit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, why? Like, if someone deserves to get punched in the fucking mouth, and then you can move on. Right. Like, be done with it. But no, then you'll get arrested, you have court hearings, you got attorney.
SPEAKER_04:You're right. And and you know, you're talking about a child here, and especially. You know, yeah, especially. And the fact is, like I said, I can't I told your friend myself, I cannot tell you how much I respect him for being able to do that, because I would not have the strength, by the way, the strength to do that. And the fact is, I guarantee you, other men he talked to probably told him, Oh, you need to beat the shit out of that guy. I gotta imagine that happened.
SPEAKER_02:No, he heard that. Yeah, there's no way he didn't from other men. Well, he heard no, fuck that. Don't shake his hand, don't do all that. Like call the you know, call the police or beat his ass. Right. But it's like I had to do right by my son. He needed to see that. You know, his father.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um he needed to see his father be able to hold his ground and do what's right in front of him. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And he did. And he did.
SPEAKER_02:Rage monster, because my friend, how he used to been, maybe ten years ago, oh yeah. Probably would have left him dead.
SPEAKER_04:Well, see, and the thing is I'm I'm kind of there now. I mean, and by the way, i there's you want to chime in? We've been talking a lot.
SPEAKER_05:No, no, I was just kind of staying out of the way of the story, but um to kind of bring some concepts together and really hopefully open a dialogue, if not actual dialogue, um in other men's and women's minds. So it's the presumptive you will sacrifice for the family. Yeah, the other side of that coin is you are the strength, you will do this, and then you're asked to restrain that strength to that that degree that we're talking about right now, to have the discipline to know you could, regardless of your actual physical physical strength, you could kill a man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So when you get to that point to have that kind of discipline, I ask you, ladies, is that not safety? Is that not exactly what you're looking for? So you cannot toxify the things that are presumptive about men and then say, oh, we want safety in our relationships. If you ask us to go to the opposite ends of that particular spectrum, right on some level, you have to acquiesce and give to us that that is safe. Right. That is true. You can't have it both. That was the the concept that was coming together as as he's telling this to me, uh, telling us this story is I really think that's what the feminine has asked of us.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:But then specific actions taken out of context then get turned into toxicity. Right. That's the problem. Um and you know, it goes both ways. If you're too much indoctrinated into that force doctrine, right? Right. I'm bigger, I can take it if I want it, that's toxic, right? We we can all agree that that can be toxic. Yeah. Okay. On the other end of it, if you are too passive and sacrifice too much, you're taking advantage of that. That's toxic the other way. Yeah, it is. You're allowing the toxicity to seep in. So finding that middle ground, finding that discipline to balance that is safety.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and and let me uh there's a couple things I want to touch on with that that that inspired me from that. So one thing is um, you know, I observe some relationships of people in my life, and it what irritates the ever-living shit out of me is, and this is you know, male-female, mother-father relationships, is there's a certain amount of control in that the woman has over the man that is uncomfortable to me. Um and it's not it's not about compromise, because I fully believe compromise is a hundred percent important, period. However, it's like everything goes back to, you know, the man's like, I want to do this. Well, let me make a hundred percent sure it's okay with with the wife. And and and it's the dynamic is too much. It's too it's like being completely subservient to your wife, and and I even know in a couple relationships that I won't name them, but where it's like, um, I only do that to keep the peace in the household.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. I I have friends like that.
SPEAKER_04:I cannot stand that shit. But that's that is the male handing over his masculinity. Right, but to do it to that level, I can tell you Katie and I do not have that dynamic. My dad and his and mom do not have that dynamic.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I but there's a balance. I think I think the balance is is that you check in with all parties concerned, right? Right. And then from there you make an educated decision about how to lead.
SPEAKER_04:Right. There's a negotiation that goes with that. But what I'm telling you is in these relationships I see it's like if if the the female partner is is against it on any level, the man's like, okay, you know what? I'm not going to. It's just complete, complete um what is it called? Submissiveness to that. And that is annoying as hell to me because to me, I okay, and maybe it's because I am a man and I take very much pride in and it's not about I need to dominate Katie over it. It's not anything to do with that. But she respects me and likewise her enough that with like, okay, well, I I wouldn't mind you home, but like I know you want to do that. So but then again, if she's like, I really need you home tonight, it's like, okay, then I'll be there. There's compromise there instead of every goddamn time, it's oh no, I uh you're not doing that. I I need this, I need this, I need this. You're referencing it.
SPEAKER_05:And I see so you're referencing happy wife, happy life.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. Fuck that. And by the way, Katie does not ascribe to that. I'll give her 100% credit for that. And I can't name many relationships that don't have that dynamic. And honestly, it drives me up a wall because I see the man's um passions and I see his interests just gone. He's not able to explore any of them because of that. Yeah. And he becomes it becomes his identity, gets absorbed into that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because my friend and his wife, I mean, they have the same dynamic as you and you and Katie.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like they have that fair compromise, and he he's not completely submissive. Like has to get be granted permission to do anything.
SPEAKER_04:That's it. That's exactly it. Like granted the permission. It's like I'm not I I want to say again, it's not about like, fuck you, Katie, I'm gonna do what I want. But it's also in her perspective, he's not she's not like, fuck you, Nick, you're gonna do what I want.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Because there is a beautiful because she knows what I need. I'm a very social person. I crave social interaction. She understands that. So but there are times that she'll say, I really need you home right now. And it's like, okay, well, I'll cancel a plan. I mean, I've canceled podcast nights because of that. Yep. Um I don't have a problem with that. There can be a balance. Trevor Burrus, Jr. No, and there has to be for that to stay in place. Right. And but then again, even in those situations, because in those relationships I mentioned, that man is still the main provider monetarily. And honestly, in a couple of them, is the main provide is the main caretaker of the children, too, many of the time. Yeah. And is expected to be the protector. It's like all those things, yet you're controlling everything that guy does. And he lets it happen. Nope. That's the fucking problem.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, my buddy went through that same thing. He's a never again problem.
SPEAKER_04:That's shit. Nope. I mean, you have to speak up. You have to and it's again, it's not about gender dominance. It's about compromise, and that's that to me is is um not serenity, but well maybe. But it it's it's um is symbiotic the right word where you you both work together. I mean, where it's jumped.
SPEAKER_05:It's not gender roles, it's gender gender purpose, gender. Or just skills, human quality, human respect. Right. And seeing that one needs the other. Right. It and each other needs other things. Yeah. I mean, probably uh you were around for some of my first marriage. Sure. Yeah. And that was me. I I put her through school so she would have a degree and go do what she was gonna do. And the plan was that she was then going to support me so that I could pursue your job on my Yeah. And you know, to the level I got to, even being discouraged as much as I was, and I know you have a shit ton of resentment about that. I do. And she was wrong. She was absolutely wrong. She was the downfall of the relationship. Did I do my thing in it? Yes. But I also tried for so long to give everything I could to keep that relationship. Yeah, you did. Once she took what she took, she would not give it back. She would not live in an equal house. Right. So, yeah, I mean it's it it it cannot go the other way. Right. It does not work because as you were talking about, you consult, you both sit down, you talk it through, you come to a consensus, and then ultimately the final decision is yours. Yeah. Right. Fair enough. Yeah. But that is made out of respect and love. But it's based in fact, it's based in need, it's based in all these factual, real, tangible things. Right. Not situational emotion. Right. And that's the trouble you get into. Yeah. Because you have probably given your word, and my guess is you followed through to the letter of it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Because I know that's what I did.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_05:Just to put kind of the the example of why when emotion gets into making those leadership kinds of decisions, you know, and I didn't find this out until we went through divorce, and we did amicable. Yeah, you're good friends now. We you know, it's like I didn't hate her, she didn't necessarily hate me, but it all comes out when you get to the end, and what I found out was her retirement was eight times what my retirement was. And we had been together almost 20 years. Yeah. And it was supposed to be that she was putting in equal amounts to each other. Oh, I didn't know about that. That was all part of it. It was like, look, I invested in your education so that you could become a breadwinner for a little while, and then I could pursue what I needed to pursue. Which, by the way, comes with its own ego hit for us.
SPEAKER_04:What do you mean? We're not the breadwinners. Oh, yeah. No, it was not easy. And I'll tell you what, I have to say a dynamic I've had with Katie for forever is our money is our money. I don't care if I make considerably more or considerably less. Our money has always been our money. We have the same bank account. And I'm not saying that that necessarily has to be the case, but one thing I I do love about our dynamic is that you know, right now she's working, I'm not because I'm trying to get on disability. Right. But she never holds over me. There's never any exactly.
SPEAKER_05:And you know I was still working about 40 hours. That's what I was saying. That's what I was getting to. Playing five, six nights a week, teaching four or five days a week. Yeah. Like I literally had twelve hour days two, three times a week. That's what I'm saying. So I was still working, but I wasn't making what a nurse made.
SPEAKER_04:No. Now, would you say she she devalued that because it was. And that's a dynamic again that is bullshit.
SPEAKER_05:Because even though I was working, you know, I mean, I was probably I mean, at the time, we're talking what, 30, 40, 30-ish years ago, 40 years ago. I mean uh when I stopped being the main breadwinner and just, you know, worked my little job so I could do my dream, you know, I'm still pulling in probably about half what she did, but she would still, in arguments, say, but you don't make any money. Yeah, yeah. And it it the devaluing in that is sinister. It is, it is. And understand that that comes from emotion. Oh, yeah. If you and I are having that conversation, it's okay, you make half what I make. Right. Because that's factual. Right. Emotionally, I didn't make any money compared to her. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And and I will say I don't think that dynamic, I I do want to say I don't think that dynamic is isolated to the woman doing that to the man. I I know two relationships in in personally, very two people very close to me in relationships where the man constantly throws that at the woman.
SPEAKER_05:And he's an asshole.
SPEAKER_04:And he is, he's a complete dick about it. I would say I don't know him.
SPEAKER_05:I'm saying he's an asshole for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I know that. I know that. He is, and it drives me up a wall. You probably know who I'm talking about, one of them. Um so it drives me up a wall. And it's not right because they get hateful about it. It's hateful. Well, and I'm sure yours probably got that weight too. Oh, yeah. But I guess the reason I wanted to add that tip is I want to make sure that's not considered um gender specific, but also there there is a weight to men on that because I think it's probably safe to say we put a different pressure on being the main breadwinner. For sure. Um I can say when I when I was raised, you know, growing up, I it wasn't like it was forced down my throat incredibly, but like I it I saw it. It was exemplified in my life that the man was usually the examples were everywhere. And and it's not like my dad didn't encourage me, you know. Sure. And of course, when things went downhill with my mental health and everything, I think it was understood that I was not gonna be. Well, that's not true. He never pushed it on me once that happened. Actually, I pushed myself.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Well, you I was gonna say, because I know you have been that. I know you've worked the 60-hour week job.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I gotta I mean the last job I had was 60, 70 hours.
SPEAKER_05:I know you've thrown yourself into being that breadwinner.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I mean it's like when I did the job at you, I'll name it now at School of Rock when I was the GM there. And every no, I'll name it now. And and everything went downhill for I don't even go into reasons, but you guys know them. Um discrimination and and fucking tax manipulation, all that shit. Um the thing is with that, I took that job making sixty-five thousand a year to raise a three-member family with a house, mortgage, car payment, all of it. Give me a break that that was gonna be realistic. My goal was to make sure Katie did not have to work. She did not put that on me, by the way. No, that was never imposed on me. That was completely self-imposed because I wanted her to be a stay-at-home mom.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And by the way, I negated the fact that Katie actually kind of wanted to work hard-time. I didn't give a shit that that's what she wanted, and that's on me. I was like, no, I knew you wanted to be a mother more than anything. I want to make sure you have every second with that child that you want.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I did. And honestly, I know she takes a lot of pride in having that time. Well, but it's not like she doesn't want her own freedom either. But I didn't look at it that way. I was so focused on no, I am the provider. I don't care. But let's be real, 65 grand a year, good luck. I mean, it's not like you couldn't make it work, but what your standard of living would be shit. You're you would have to be very disciplined to make that work. And I I didn't want that lifestyle anyway, but I just I was so wrapped up in being the provider above all. Oh, yeah. I wasn't even looking at the finances of it. You know what I mean? But what I will say is I know in a lot of relationships that is placed on the man. I mean, it's just that's expected. It is I again, uh you can probably tell we have a very healthy relationship.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But that was never placed on me.
SPEAKER_05:The the interesting thing though, that I have heard in other conversations about this very same thing, the pushback is always, oh, well, but I can make the money, I can be the provider, but then you get in a relationship with that person, and they're gonna be, oh, well, our money is our money, but my money is my money. Right. Because I earned that. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, you did. But what if it were reversed? Yeah. And I made that money, but I told you our money is our money and my money is my money, then I'm toxic. So that I I think that really just drawing attention to the idea that a lot of these things that we as men accept get turned around on the opposite side. Yeah, they can't. And it really has bred kind of the condition of relationships these days. Yeah. That masculinity got turned against itself, and then what came to fill that void when we all drew back was equally as toxic and maybe more harmful in certain ways. Because if you do look at divorce rates, you look at suicide rates, you look at how many people are on antidepressants, whatever gender, yeah, whatever gender is small.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I mean, as you know, the male s the male suicide rate continues to go up exponentially. Absolutely. Women too.
SPEAKER_05:But the male is absolutely but I think men are outpacing women at it.
SPEAKER_04:That's what I'm saying. We're definitely men's is growing uh vast.
SPEAKER_05:Way faster.
SPEAKER_04:And I can tell you the and that again, it's pressures I put on myself, but it's societal expectations where I even am thinking, what is my worth? And I you guys know in Pathway Suicidal and all that. So that's even aside from that, it's like that's a huge contributor to that.
SPEAKER_05:We love you, don't go. Don't go in, don't go into the light.
SPEAKER_04:Aim for the bushes. Aim for the bushes.
SPEAKER_02:My motto is aim for the bushes.
SPEAKER_04:That was fun. Uh that was classic. Um, but it that is that's interesting. And and I don't I don't know if I have anything else to add to that particular thing.
SPEAKER_02:You can lead into the next unless you do. You know how men, the suicide rate is going up. We're also I don't know what it is, but in our society, men it's like not okay for men to talk about their feelings. They just suppress that shit.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, and I know where you're going with this.
SPEAKER_02:And then once they just get to that point, they're gone.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. They're just gone. No, we we bottle it up, and and I will say that how many how many uh kind of kind of go circles back to go ahead, yeah. That's where I was trying to get.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it circles back to men perceived as pussies. Yeah. And it just tell you to man up, get over it, yeah, move on.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's like weren't you telling me that people told your friend in that situation? What were they telling him? Like, oh, get over it or some shit?
SPEAKER_02:Like, just move on.
SPEAKER_04:It's not that simple. Just move on, who cares? The psychological scarring and probably, in many ways, permanent damage that we'll, you know, alleviate over the years, but that is probably permanent.
SPEAKER_02:Move on, get over it, you dodge the bullet. Yeah, I mean all the cliches of all that.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_04:I I mean But that's men doing that to men.
SPEAKER_05:It is men doing that to men, but I think it's also part of that cautionary piece of, yeah, but when you do open up, it's used against you. Right. So there's, you know, I mean, I don't know that you want to call it wisdom in it, but the expectation of, you know, self-sacrifice for protection of your family. Right. There is that same quiet um agreement that if something massive happens to us that takes us to the edge of breaking, that we get help with that, we get therapy, right? But we're not supposed to even talk about that. The process itself has to happen in the shadows. Yeah, absolutely. I don't want to know that you're weak because if I know that you're weak, and it's truth, if she knows that you've had a struggle, it will affect the way she looks at you. Yeah. I mean, I've had conversations with women I've dated. And and, you know, obviously if I'm still dating, we've had some relationship issues, right? Um just inherent in trying to fix some of those problems. When part of the problem is there's something that's upsetting you in a relationship, first off, it gets turned into, well, you're criticizing me. No, I'm not. I'm trying to tell you what I'm experiencing. Yeah. What is hurting me, right? Yeah. So it goes one of two ways. You either are criticizing her by talking about your feelings, or you talk about your feelings, and then you're weak in her eyes. Yeah. And that weakness can then be used against you. So it's, you know, there's no solution in anything I'm saying. I'm just saying with balancing how it is. When it is that way, you you have to be aware of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You know, if if you are having struggles, please get help with it. But unfortunately, I don't know that our society is yet at a point where we're open enough to talk about.
SPEAKER_04:But you know what I have to lead into with that. Please it was uh was it on TikTok you sent me this post of this older guy saying that men's awareness month has been around since oh yeah, 2003 or six? I've never heard of men's awareness month. Twenty-two years. Men's mental health or whatever. Men's mental health month.
SPEAKER_05:Never heard of that in my mind. Yep. And this is the first year I've heard of it.
SPEAKER_02:I've never heard of it say it's either this year or last year is when I first heard.
SPEAKER_05:I've never heard of that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:June was an interesting month for me. The realization of that. And then also, okay, does the alphabet community realize that they chose one of the seven deadly sins to have a parade about? Pride? I mean, do we really want to name it pride? Maybe, maybe rethink that guy's just rebranding. You know, keep the rainbow. That's great. And I don't have a problem with any of the letters either. It's just the whole rainbow month. Do you guys really want like a seven deadly sin month? That was pretty funny. Did you come in with that on your own? Yeah, literally, that's what June was for me was realizing that and oh shit, men's mental wealth, you know.
SPEAKER_04:You know what's funny because I did a post God months ago at this point where I was like, yeah, there's there's gay pride month. Where's mental health pride month? There's mental health awareness month. And then it lands on your shit. Now that doubles down on how bad mental health, you know, it's like pair it with the Pride Month. Well, yeah. Um that's funny. A bunch of download motherfuckers. I like that.
SPEAKER_05:That was that's pretty clever. That's pretty clever. Um I mean, for that fact, we could call December sloth month or um gluttony month.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. For all the holidays. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Thanksgiving should be just gluttony. 25th to the 20th. Glutton giving.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you're just gluttony.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, gluttony. I mean, we we know Thanksgiving the way it's described is not how it went down. So no.
SPEAKER_05:Let's rebrand. I mean, unless the Cowboys and well, they're not Redskins anymore, are playing on Thanksgiving. That was the only thing.
SPEAKER_02:Did they change that?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, they did change the commanders.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Do they still have the same logo? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_05:That's some racist shit you serve back off of that.
SPEAKER_02:It's just a W now. Washington Commanders. Just a W on their page.
SPEAKER_05:Well, the funny part is it's more of an L than a W.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, that's funny. Um Okay, so I I do want to get into I mean, I almost forgot it. Hang on. Oh, okay. So um with these extra pressures and that are placed on us, and even though we place on ourselves, we'll we'll add that in there too.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um expect yeah, all that. Um that that are probably unique to most men. Um here's the thing. I mean, we turn, I think, to different forms of self-medication. So, I mean, as you and I talked in the past, you know, in the 50s, what did the men do? Come home and and drink, and and that was better have that drink ready. Uh-huh. I mean, that was it. You know, they'd work hard and come home. And back then, of course, I I think the woman pretty much was majority of the time a stay at home. Right. Right. And she had her own medication.
SPEAKER_05:She'd take a volume. Yeah. Volume and volume in your uh cocktail when you get home.
SPEAKER_04:But I guess what I'm saying is how much how much is that in the in the in the in the whole uh stereotype of that era? It's like men come home and they drink and then you know the wife just the kids.
SPEAKER_02:I sometimes grow up seeing that firsthand.
SPEAKER_04:Did you? Not I mean not to that extreme, but yeah, you s yeah, I mean, I mean, I admittedly I I never I didn't have that. I mean, did you?
SPEAKER_05:No. My parents had a group of parent friends, and they all went out and partied on the weekend, so that was fun to remember. Oh, I guess my parents were born. But during the week I very rarely saw until they had the friend group, and then Long Island iced teas were a part of you know family life.
SPEAKER_02:Me, I just grew up, you know, my mom, stay-at-home mom, a stepdad worked, and I was just you know, expected of her to have dinner ready by the time he got home.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:If not.
SPEAKER_03:Not good things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I gotcha. Uh so yeah, I always grew up. Seeing that.
SPEAKER_04:That's interesting, yeah. Um but like it goes beyond just drinking. I mean, uh I'll go ahead and throw this out there, and I wrote it down. It's like we um it's like when I hit extreme anger anger stages, I got that Bob punching bag. I go whale on that son of a bitch a lot. You're talking about masturbating, aren't you? I do call him Bob too. But I was more referring to my Bob. No, I'm kidding. No, but like seriously, I mean I I don't think Katie, when she gets mad, goes down there and beats the shit out of. I hope she does. That would be so funny. That would be awesome. I would love to see that. I would too. She'd probably be meaner to that thing than I would, man. Hell hath no fury, like a Katie's score.
SPEAKER_05:Mother dresses you funny.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, I bet she can pack like a powerful actor.
SPEAKER_04:She is strong. She is, she's tough. She's tough. I can still take her though. Um you know what one thing that she finds one of the most attractive things about me is my functional strength. Like she really she was fine at sexy. Oh, yeah. Which I guess plays in a little bit too much.
SPEAKER_05:Being able to overpower is not frowned upon. Okay. Which I think is interesting when you look at what gets used against us.
SPEAKER_04:Fair enough. Uh yeah, and we'll get we'll really get to that. Um, here's another thing that um I I debated if I wanted to talk about this or not, and and you guys I don't know how much depth you want to go into, but I would include pornography in that. Uh-uh. Now we're talking about masturbation. Yes. Okay. Sorry, I I jumped the gun. Then I jumped then Bob jumped the gun. But like, you know, uh uh.
SPEAKER_02:So you use Bob for other things?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I got a I got a strap on. Well, no, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02:When he pisses me off and beat the shit out of him when I want to fuck him. I got no.
SPEAKER_04:And I just do one of those. Doing the back of the thing.
SPEAKER_05:Little twerking towards Bob. Go.
SPEAKER_04:Got one of those big black straps on them. There you go. But but seriously, I mean that that is another thing that okay, that's the one of all of them I would I've leaned into. Porn. Sure. And there's different there's been there's a lot of reasons for that. It's not just anything that you might be obvious.
SPEAKER_05:Um I we're just talking about the medicating aspect, correct?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I can definitely take it anywhere, but that's kind of what I'm getting to.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, I think that there are I'm there okay. I I think that there are not necessarily sinister uses of that, and even self-medication to a cer certain point. I mean, I think used healthy in a relationship, it can be great. Yeah. Um but when we're talking about solo use, self-medication, I think that that can turn sinister in that there are some, oh, I don't know, maybe unrealistic aspects to certain you know. But again, I think that is okay so long as we understand. There's an understanding of it. Because otherwise, how do you live out some fantasies? Because some fantasies you you can't. No. That you know but and that's not a gender thing. There are plenty of not male genders that have their own fantasies that could lead to their own demise, even. Sure. Sure. Well, we talked about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I guess it it is more about about the self-indication and the bending side of it because it goes beyond just uh sexual gratification or even fantasy. It is a way of vending too, and self-edication. I mean, it there is a there's a catharsis with that that is different.
SPEAKER_05:You know, you you you bleed off a little of your qi and you can sleep a little better at night on those nights where you can't get your head to turn off. Absolutely. I tell you it is all part of that.
SPEAKER_04:Um different situations, it it's i it uh it doesn't come along as much.
SPEAKER_05:But I think that there ends up being a more healthy use of said fantasies or m self-medicating if if there's a healthy relationship that's part of it.
SPEAKER_04:Right. I guess what I'm saying here is that is the that it can be used unhealthily, and I've certainly I've certainly done that.
SPEAKER_05:And um are you are you subtexting that it is when you're pushed that direction by a gender? Probably. Is that part of that conversation?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's exactly with it.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Well, and I mean it's the same thing as you know, the other side of it. Um what do they call it? Um retail therapy. Retail therapy? She takes your credit card, goes shopping. So much better. Like that's bleeding off. Yeah. That's bleeding off of emotion for because I've I've seen several actually go do that, and then there's remorse or consequence. Um we all know about that accountability piece, but I have seen them have to return a fair level of those things because it harmed them, you know. You're talking like financially, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't beat anyone, I promise. Oh, good, okay, okay. That's clarification for our listeners. I mean it was open-handed, come on.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, well, okay, great segue. You're welcome. I'm serious, great segue here.
SPEAKER_05:That's why we're here.
SPEAKER_04:So, like, you know, we talked about the physical the physical superiority been half. We I think that's a fact. And I don't hear many women denying that. That fact.
SPEAKER_05:They'll argue the point, but I don't think any one of them can deny it in fact.
SPEAKER_04:Right. So g fair. But what I was going to say is, okay, so in situations where a woman is beating a man, that what will that, you know, their consequences for beating us are far different than if we do that to them. Okay. And go ahead if you want to comment here. Seriously.
SPEAKER_05:We're talking about physical violence, right? Yeah, that's where I'm going to be. If if a woman is physically attacking a man, okay. If if I'll put it this way. This is going to be upsetting to some people. But this is this is what I have thought in the past. If you need me to be your punching bag and then have the del the discipline to not hit you back, right? Because that's the natural consequence. If you hit me, I hit you back. And then, you know, we either decide we're going to continue that or we have a conversation and we work it out, right? Right, right. If you need me to be a punching bag and then have the discipline to not hit you back, then you have to accept that you're gonna get hit back. No. Oh you have to accept that you don't have the emotional maturity to control your emotion to not hit me. You do not have that level of discipline. You do not have the monster you can control. You just have the monster. So the safety that you're asking for from me, right? You're gonna hit me and I am going to have the discipline, then I need you to understand why I'm going to lead and make decisions because I can't trust your emotion. That has to be a fair trade.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And if you're not willing to do that, I'm gonna hit you back.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I'll I'll say, um I I myself really feel like if I was attacked by any woman, I wouldn't hit her back. Fully don't think I would. I said the same thing.
SPEAKER_05:Did that happen to you? Yeah. Did you I I yeah, I was getting hammered. Okay, I actually knew the story. I just didn't know if you wanted to share it. No, I know. And if she remembers it, she got a fist to the stomach. Yeah, it was and it backed her off because she couldn't breathe. Yeah. But it took one, didn't it? Yeah. It just endured. Oh, she was biting you and pawing you and all that stuff. And after that happened, she had to resort to throwing her own damn head into a solid wood door to threaten me that she would call the cops.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm like, if you're that decrepitly fucked up, you need to leave. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And you can't use manipula you can't use emotional manipulation because you can't outforce me.
SPEAKER_04:Like that's not gonna work. Oh well, and that is the power that they can technically use against us that because they don't have the physical superiority. Right. So that technically that is what they can use, but if that's not uh coming at us, we're not gonna usually, most of us are not gonna try to give that back.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no, I've been hit by all but two of the relationships I've been in, and I've only had to hit back once.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, and here's the thing is that I will say firmly, my mom has always been a proponent. I mean, huge. Yeah. If if a woman hits you, you sock her back.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I don't know what yours has told you or even your mother has told you. But I mean, but still my dad, on the other hand, would counter that and say, you never hit a woman. My dad is a full believer in that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't have much to add because I've never been in a relationship where physical abuse was a thing.
SPEAKER_04:I didn't have a I mean I really haven't either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But growing up, that's a completely different story.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right. Right. And but the thing is, is that I I I really and I guess like your friend's ex said, maybe maybe you don't know until you're in the situation sometimes. Fair enough. I mean, I can't imagine you. To a degree. I too no, I know. I'm not I guess I'm using this specifically. Not not theirs. Yeah. I just want to use that phrase. But um like you said, I'm sure you didn't go into relationships probably thinking that would be your reaction to that.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I never thought I would ever do that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And it was only one time, and you've been hit a lot. But honestly, it was it was full-on self-protection. Because if I hadn't taken it to that level, she would have continued to hurt me. Like I was genuinely physically harmed. Yeah, I know you were. Not just emotionally, but physically harmed by this person. Yeah, I know you were. And she was one of the taller girls that I haven't taken.
SPEAKER_03:I know it was. Yeah, I know it was.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, she was not she was not she was not a damsel.
SPEAKER_03:No, and and that's the thing. And not in distress anyway.
SPEAKER_04:So I think unless you guys have something to add to that piece, a segue I would like to go to, and this is probably gonna get pretty controversial. Oh, good. If we haven't already hit that already. I don't think we've already gone. Damn. So we're gonna get into sex power and the shame game.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, well, that'll be the excellent uh segue there, because we can talk about Sam One.
SPEAKER_04:That's exactly what I was saying. Oh, with your girl. Okay. So I was gonna say is, you know, and I don't I mean, that's the order I have things in, but how do you do you have someone you want to launch from that? Or do you want me to go on the actual order? No, go ahead. Okay. I'll know you'll get there. Well, I'll throw vignettes out, but I don't want to tell a life story. No, I get that, I get that. Um so you know, it's like I mean, we'll get into the whole Me Too movement and all that stuff. No, I want to, because honestly, I don't like it either. Um so you know, it's like when we're talking about a man appreciating a woman's beauty, and we're talking human sexually, okay? Um every time we do that, it seems like, especially in today's culture, we're even considered accuser, accused or or uh predators or all this stuff. Well, but here's here's my here's my thing is that I get the difference between if I if I'm out in public and I see a woman that I find attractive, I'm not gonna be like, you know, oof, and just stare at her and make all these gestures and everything. But I'm telling you, you get caught even acknowledging yeah, look at their breasts, look at their ass. I mean, that's what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is like you get caught doing that at all, and it's it's not by my significant other, because honestly, we joke about that sometimes. Like, oh, she's cute. You know what I mean? But it's like, I guarantee, even by Katie, if I was just ogling up and down a lot, which I get why that's uncomfortable. But I'm just saying, even if you're caught remotely glancing by the person you're doing it at, oh my god. You might get like are you, you know, it's that whole thing. Well, me too led into all men. Yeah, that's where I was going. Thank you. And it's it But I will say, how does a man feel when they're ogled by a woman? I mean, I feel pretty goddamn good about it. How you doing? I right? I mean, it's like, oh hell, she's noticing me.
SPEAKER_02:I got hit with it a couple weeks ago. Did you? Yeah. How'd you handle it? Uh I felt felt really good for it. Felt really good, right? I mean, that day I was kind of having a sh shit day anyway. And just going through the store and someone was like, damn, not bad. I wasn't not bad yourself, girl. And then we just moved on. But I was like, you know what? That made my day right there.
SPEAKER_04:Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I gotta tell you I gotta tell you, I mean, when I mean I'm married and have a beautiful relationship and all this, but when my attractiveness is acknowledged, period, I I enjoy it. You know, especially as someone who doesn't feel particularly attractive. We saw your video. Which one?
SPEAKER_05:With the gushers.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I'm glad you caught that. I can't believe nobody caught that not so subtle thing. That pissed me the fuck off, honestly. I really worked hard to create that little in your but anyway. It's like, you know, when I go out, and I'll tell you what, the dad energy is really unique. Because I can tell you I've gone out with a couple friends who are objectively well better looking than me, and I'm noticed just as much as them. Not Ryan. But it's like it's like I know, right? Asterisk, Ryan. Yeah. Well, Ryan.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_04:Ryan and I have a very um like I I joke with his girlfriend now, they're like, you have him now, but that ass is mine. It's like you're not gonna find this funny, probably, because it'll be cringe for you. No, there's a reason. Because it's I don't know, I don't know if I told you this, but we were playing, uh we went to play VR. Like one of those VR things. I don't know if I told you this. And we all had the headsets on except me, and I went and grabbed Ryan's ass. No, I didn't know that. Yeah, I did. I went and grabbed his ass, and then um he's like, whoa, Christina. And I said, Yep, that was Christina. And by the way, there's a story too I have to tell, and this is a little meandering, but it's funny. On grabbing Ryan's ass. I've all I've grabbed that ass three times in my life. Welcome to the episode, Ryan's ass. No, it's funny. It's funny. I've grabbed it three times in my life because my God, he's got a great ass. He is America's ass.
SPEAKER_02:You know, Captain America?
SPEAKER_04:He is America. He is anyway.
SPEAKER_02:That is America's ass.
SPEAKER_04:That is America's ass. But anyway, it was uh it was a date, uh, it was week three into mine and Katie's relationship. We drove down to Spencer to see Ryan and his wife at the time, and they all three of them got hammered drunk. I don't drink, so I'm always the sober one, and I love that because I get to manipulate and and observe. So they're all drunk, and out of nowhere, um Ryan's ex-wife started grabbing Ryan's ass, and it's a perfect ass. I'll say it up and down. It's great. It's better than most. I I've made lots of comments. I I was okay, not another segment. Um, but anyway, so you know, Kate was oh should I said her name oh yeah, I don't care. Um she was grabbing it, and then I I urged Katie to do it. I said, you know, you might as well hop on that train. Just and she did. We've all been there, and she's like, that was pretty nice. And I said, let me let me tap that. But I don't know. That was I had to share that. You gave her the whole pass so you could do it exactly. I see. That was the first time I got.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. Really?
SPEAKER_04:Katie was a drinker for a while, not like obsessed with but no, the joke. The funny thing about her is when she would get drunk, you'd always she always did this thing. Excuse me. It was always the finger pointing thing. You never stop her.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_04:One of my favorite things my brother Michael would do is get her drunk and then he'd get her going. It was funny.
SPEAKER_02:Katie, you're soon. Bring it over alcohol. I need to. She doesn't drink anymore.
SPEAKER_04:Like one sip, and she's just down for the because she stopped when Max was fine. Or pregnant. Anyway, um, I totally forgot where I was going. I just started thinking of Ryan's ass and sexual from you know, give me five minutes. We love going there. You gotta take care of yourself? Yeah, it's a Ryan's ass. I've got pictures of it. Yeah, I got all the biggest. I've got a whole full Bob.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Um, Ryan, I hope you find this funny because I know you listen to these. Love you, rah-ra.
SPEAKER_07:Awkward.
SPEAKER_04:Not for me. Um anyway. Um, I just deleted that whole note, guys. Ryan's I deleted. We're improvising. We're off script. I think my belly uh touched it. You know, that's uh Oh nope here it is, I'm sorry. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Back on script.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so uh back into the the sexuality thing. Aside from Ryan's ass. Um In fact, I'm gonna include a link to Ryan's TikTok so you all can view it for yourself. Please do. Yeah, that would be awesome. What's funny is he has like 4,500 followers and he can see the metrics. Like a huge percent of them are gay men.
SPEAKER_05:Times are some time. And I guess I'm one of them. Perhaps. Okay, I'm sorry. Stay with pride, son.
SPEAKER_04:Uh okay. So as far as the uh that goes, um I I I don't like being made to feel like a predator just because I simply acknowledge a woman's beauty, even if it is a sexual beauty. It doesn't mean I'm going to rape this woman or have even any desire to act on that physical um attraction. Well, I can tell you I have no desire to be with anybody but my wife, 100%. But that doesn't keep me from acknowledging others' beauty, even men's, apparently. Apparently, Ryan is very much in.
SPEAKER_02:Ryan's the one exception. He's the one melee.
SPEAKER_04:Him and James McAvoy. But anyway. James McAvoy. He's odd. You could do so much better. I'm just kidding. But he's got so many personalities. Uh now I see it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you can end up with Patricia one night. Oh God.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, you know the names. But between the two of you, it'd be a gangbang, right? That'd be the only opportunity I have at a gangbang.
SPEAKER_04:The voices and the person. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:You're taking Patricia tonight.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's I'm taking Danger.
SPEAKER_03:I want the beast.
SPEAKER_05:The beast is not good. Split gangbang. That's the porn I want to see now.
SPEAKER_04:Wait, when when uh what if two Tom might need a VPN for this one? What if two what if two um what do they call it? Dual identity what if two DIDs got together and had sex? Is that what a 48-way gangbang?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, no, it'd literally be like a Bonnie Blue experience.
SPEAKER_04:Holy shit. Yeah, right. And what if different personalities were into different kinks? That's gotta be a thing. Yeah. It's gonna save on uh, you know, so what I'm hearing is we need to traumatize more women at a young age. Yeah, you know. So we can find them and get them to split. Yeah, split.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Okay, that would be the comedy portion of our reel. We're gonna move on. Um, I had so much more material.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, I don't think we need to go then.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So so you're you're you're uh you're you're talking about you don't want to be objectified sexually No, never mind, you did want to be objectified. You don't want to be made to be a predator because you observe a woman's sexuality and beauty in a very similar lens. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And that goes to appreciating different body parts. Yeah, no, sexual organs, that goes to that.
SPEAKER_05:I'm sorry. And I I I have always defaulted to we are made the way we're made. And go on that train because I wanted you to. There are there are certain aspects of women, but we're not talking about women today, that are innately women. They don't serve the male perspective, they don't enhance or create anything better for my life, but it is something specifically for you, the way you observe men or society. I'm gonna observe it the way I observe it through my lens, through my perspective. Now, where that stops is I really want to and kind of bring in the me too piece. Me too became all men, right? Like it was hashtag me too, and now it's hashtag all men. Right. Yeah. I would very much like to um request that all of us, regardless of gender, put our thinking brains back in our head. And understand that while there is a faction of men that go too far, the faction that created all women, that's the equivalent. Um let's if if any of this is ever gonna work and we're ever gonna stop being on depressants and have high suicide rates and high depression, it's gonna be that we finally figure out we've got to work together. So I ha and the weird thing is, if you ask men, oh, do you observe beauty in a woman and you can you can say, Oh yeah, I oh uh yeah, for sure. I almost a hundred percent of men are gonna tell you that, right? If you interview women and you don't even have to, well, I think even gay men would say, Oh yeah. Hell yeah. Oh, fair enough. Yeah, you're right, you're right. But it's just observing Ryan's ass is the exact example I'd like to bring in.
SPEAKER_02:We can get a picture of Ryan's ass and just put it in the room.
SPEAKER_05:You guys no one would watch. Um Ryan, we need your help. Where was I going with that? I hate it.
SPEAKER_04:What was I saying? I don't remember. So you were talking about I started thinking of Ryan's ass again.
SPEAKER_05:I know. It's like the right scene.
SPEAKER_04:It's like the the men in black uh look into the red light.
SPEAKER_05:Umled a hundred men, you'd probably get almost a hundred saying, yes, when I look at a beautiful woman, I am going to see it in a sexual sense. I can see just beauty. Sure. But if it's attached to female, it does have a sexual undertone for me as a man. It is the way I'm programmed. Um but if you ask a hundred women, you're not gonna get a hundred women. Because, you know, you go out and you you watch reels or TikToks or whatever. You've got women who are like, don't cat call me from across the room, and they always have blue hair. And then you're gonna have the other side of that. They're gonna be like, and I've literally seen this. Can we bring back catcalling? Like whatever happened to real men? Like that whole thing, like there's they're it's not a hundred percent that think all men, right? You know, so let's have those people start to speak up a little bit more and we can bring some sanity to this conversation because the insanity is kind of why we're having this podcast. The or or this episode of the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, but I mean You know what's interesting that that just hit me is with that, is you mentioned how you know there's some women wanting to bring back cat going. Can we bring that back? It's like the reason why the other is so much louder and more hitting is because that's attached to trauma. When men do prey on women, you've got trauma with that. Yeah. And what does everyone honestly crave? I I think there is a trauma crave thing. Don't get me on that, but I think there is. What? People do crave a level of trauma for attention.
SPEAKER_05:Well, it you immediately put Raquel the capacity expert in my head. Uh-huh. Thank you. Good God. I love her. Please on the show. Flood her page with subscribe.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you notice her channel's gone so fast up.
SPEAKER_05:Good.
SPEAKER_04:She needs to. She I want to get her on the show. But she oh, she absolutely needs to enlighten me about her.
SPEAKER_05:We'll send I'll send you a link to her. Um tell them what her stick is. Her big thing is capacity. And what she's saying is that therapy was never meant to have you dig deeper into your trauma so you could stay in it and create an identity in it. Therapy was always about let's acknowledge that trauma, but then let's figure out how do we build a capacity for you to handle that pain and still push forward. Or turn it into a strength. Right. That's the other thing that can be done. Whatever. Therapy was initially supposed to be, hey, let's figure out how to get you feeling better.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And instead, too much of it has turned into Coddling comfort. It's it's a dialogue to figure out how you can label everything that's wrong and then use it to set boundaries. Use it to set boundaries or make excuses. Right. I mean, oh, I'm gonna need you to stop that. That's a trigger for me. Well, that's you admitting to me that you don't have the capacity, i.e., you're weak and can't get through this situation. Right. As a functional adult, you should be able to get from that side of the room to this side of the room and ignore me the rest of your fucking day.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right, true. Yep.
SPEAKER_05:If you don't have the capacity to pass through the room that I'm in, even if I'm offending you, and then go on with the rest of your day letting me live rent-free, pissing you off for the rest of the day, you're the fucking problem. Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:I mean As long as they don't maintain that thought their entire life, that some people could take a while to get to that point to where they could. Sure, sure. Like uh my friend is a good example.
SPEAKER_05:But but that's for okay, so therapy should spur growth, not excuse. Yeah. Not excuse where you're at.
SPEAKER_04:Your friend has not done that. He's still trucking along, living his life, growing, advancing, moving on.
SPEAKER_05:And it's a process for him, but he is well, okay, so your your friend is two years in. I'm ten years in from something. Right. I was where where that person was two years in. It you're gonna move at different rates, yeah, at different places on that journey. Right. You're you're not gonna move super fast in the beginning, but it's like I was having the conversation the other day. You know, you you mentioned it earlier, and I almost chimed in. Uh education, right, is knowledge. But it's not wisdom till you can put it to practice. Right, exactly. Right? So the interesting thing is, okay, if I show you a napkin, what is this? It's a napkin. Okay, what do we what do you do with it? Well, I can cover my lap, I can wash my hands, I can wipe my nap. That's wisdom. Right. Knowing it's a napkin is knowledge. Knowing what to do. That napkin, okay, I write ABC on a piece of paper, you go, oh, that's the alphabet. Okay, what do you do with the alphabet? Oh, you create words, language, communication, right? So I put those A, B, C on a napkin, it spells I love you. Now what do you have? You have a message. So wisdom is exponential. You're a poetic motherfucker. What thank you. Do you like that? That's a turn on. Stand up, I'll try to get it. All the sapiosexuals out there, come on, hit me up. Um but we'll talk about it later. But the idea is that two years in, that person doesn't have the wisdom yet to start putting wisdom with wisdom and come up with wisdom that's beyond the knowledge. Right. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And once you get to that point, it becomes a much faster journey out. Okay? Having been there, man, I was suicidal. I talked to him about God, all I want to do is I'm hitting 80, 90 miles an hour on the switch. Find a fucking concrete wall and make it my friend.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But you get beyond that, and as you get further from it, you do exponentially speed up.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_05:So I think, to kind of try to bring all that back, uh I think there's a way for us, and that's that everybody who is more in the middle, right? The the conservatives spoke in our most recent presidential campaign, right? To bring us back the other direction a little bit. I think those of us who sit in the middle need to be a little more vocal and less comfortable. Oh, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because I think it will help politically, I think it'll help financially, I think it'll help with relationships.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly, because the loudest voices are on the extremes. Yeah. And the middle, honestly, are just so content.
SPEAKER_05:The blue hairs and the red hats. It's Trump's fault.
SPEAKER_04:But it is true. I mean, I don't we're not getting to politics. No, it's not. No, no, no, no, no, no. The only thing I want to talk about with that is the extremes of it. And that plays in anything. Most people, even the loud voices, are not actually extremists.
SPEAKER_05:No. They're not. But me too started in the middle. And men fought that fight with women. They did. But when it became believe all women, hashtag all men, now it's the blue hairs and the red hats yelling. Yeah, you're right. It's not the people who are genuinely fighting the fight anymore. It's somebody who's fighting for social justice. Right. And you bring in social justice fighters and you might as well fucking turn the lights out. Party's over.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and and let me let me share a story real quick of a friend of mine. Um, there's a there's a friend, and it does play into this a little bit. So very early on in my in my friend's relationship, um his the girl he was seeing was um basically at her apartment with her friend, and they had just started dating, it was very early on. Well, he they they had a date that afternoon. He went and got, he went and ate fizz always with his mom. And then he brought he got an extra load of breadsticks. And he literally just brought it over to her apartment. Completely kind gesture. That's all it was. He knew she liked the breadsticks, he brought her breadsticks. Right. Now he was gonna bring it directly to her apartment, but it just so happened her and her friend were walking in the sidewalk. So all he did was pull up and give her the breadsticks and left. But what's funny is she tells a story now that she was creeped the fuck out by it. She's like, is this guy a predator? Is this guy, you know, wanting to have, you know, all this thing? It's like, is he a stalker now? It's like that was what was going through her head. Now, by the way, this couple is married now. But is is interesting that that was a perfectly kind, innocent gesture that was interpreted as is is this possibly a is it possibly this, is it possibly that? And I think it does, I don't know if it's exactly me too, but that is such an unfair.
SPEAKER_05:You know what I mean? I mean I I to have that be the assumption. You know, the other side of it though, too, is like the the sidewalk test, right? Right. If you're a female and on the other side there's a man walking towards you on the other side of the street, you're fine. But if he crosses the street, immediately you're in danger. Right. Right. Regardless of whether you you walk up close enough and oh my god, it's my fifth grade teacher. Right. Something totally innocuous. You as a woman, you have to have that awareness. You do, I agree with that completely. But it it's been that narrative has been pushed to the extreme as the oldest. To where it's now the first thought. It is, and that's the thing is that self-protective, though, it's gender-specific and hurtful.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. And the the thing is that you know she would reflect on it now and say that she was totally off base going immediately to that. There were no signs of anything like that. Even she looks back and says, that was actually a really sweet gesture. But in that moment, it's like, uh oh. And they've probably been dating two or three weeks at this point.
SPEAKER_05:And she she came clean about that with the case. I said they're married now. The funny thing is, that's I get you. Yeah. But I think that that's the way good relationships work. Yeah, at least they were able to come together and talk about it. And they didn't. And it but it it's And I guess it surpassed that discomfort. For an early it's not an early conversation, but in an early part of your relationship, that's a hard thing to probably bring up. So the fact that she was able to tell you, hey, look, I actually thought this way and you turned out to be this way. Right. You know, that that's a very self-aware thing. And it's it's a good thing to be able to share with your partner.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I gotta say, I think it segues into just talking about things. Talk about things.
SPEAKER_05:That's what we're doing, man.
SPEAKER_04:That's what we're doing. Ryan's that I feel like you have something you want to say.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was kinda questioning the whole thing. Like I can see her approach that is kind of creepy. Let me so like, let me, okay. I guess I just have questions about it. Was this dude like driving and they were like, you know, on the sidewalk?
SPEAKER_05:I mean, as far as I understand, it was something like that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Did did your friend pull up and say, hey, little girl? Probably. He did? Okay. Well, see that part's clear. No, I know.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, no, from what I I mean, from what I understand, he just kind of pulled up alongside. They just happened to be walking. But they had just they had just gotten off the date.
SPEAKER_06:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:And if I'm not misunderstanding, it sounds like he had even told her he was having lunch with his mom. Right. Because they'd had breakfast. Gotcha. So it's not like it was even I mean, it was out of the blue, but it's not like and I knew she liked a spontaneous gesture. It was a spontaneous gesture. So you know what I'm saying? So it's just like to just go immediately to that is is not it is. But I do get the thing too. What you were saying is the sidewalk test is a very real thing. And I'm not saying in today, I mean, period, women do need to be careful. Sure. But in that situation, I mean, she had already established a pretty good connection with him. Yeah. And there was no hint of that. So that's what I'm saying. It's like there was no precursor to thinking, okay, I'm getting, I'm getting I got vice before this, and that oh, oh, okay, there's the test. You know what I mean? It's like, let's chill out and and understand that most of the time, intentions are completely pure. So anyway, I mean that's kind of what I want to say.
SPEAKER_02:I just wanted to, I guess, ask because maybe there's an other people out there just kind of wondering the same thing.
SPEAKER_04:No, I mean that that that's that's the story as I understand it. Um but anyway, I just think that kind of plays into again the the unfortunate um labels or the you know the the um the negativity or I don't know what I'm trying to say here, the the predatory nature that is just the stereotype that is placed upon men that is is is most of the time not there. I'm not saying it's non-existent, it's just like to say women can't be predators.
SPEAKER_05:No.
SPEAKER_04:You hear the female teachers preying on the kids a lot, honestly, just as much as as the men you hear that on that one. You've seen a lot of that too. I know plenty of it going on. And of course, I mean I have to throw this out there. I mean, you know, South Park did an episode on that, what, 20 some years ago? And it's a funny fucking episode because all the cops, you know, they they I don't know if you've seen this one, but you know, it's Ike is getting with that fourth grade or that teacher, and of course he's loving it. He's getting sex from this hot teacher. They they go to the cops, and the cops don't even take it seriously, where were all these teachers when I was? Well, and that's actually a true narrative. It is mostly. And honestly, I but I even I look back now, and yeah, does it sound sexy as shit? There were teachers I found hot as fuck. I'm like, God, I would have fucked them back.
SPEAKER_05:We even had music videos, hot for teacher. Uh right.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it is it is a thing, but then then it's like the same from varsity blues. I exactly teacher they're also like holy shit, she's hot.
SPEAKER_04:But here's the thing and it's that is a fantasy, and how many people I mean that fantasy is even enacted in role play. Right? I mean, both roles, I mean, usually it's probably the male teacher and the female student, that's the one you see a lot. But what I'm saying is that is a fantasy for one thing, and two, I can definitely say I would look back, and if I was getting even with a teacher I found super hot. You want to get diddled by a teacher, yeah. But I'm I'm saying that, yeah, objectively, it's like that that sounds pretty cool. Like I can think of a couple teachers I'd I'd have dug that from objectively, but I will also say I'd have been scarred from that. You can look at things from a comical point and realistically, and god damn it, can we get back to that?
SPEAKER_05:But but do you really, yeah, I mean, do you want the same things that 12-year-old you wanted as an adult? That's so that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04:No, there's again it's wisdom and distance, and but I'm sure gonna laugh my ass off about that. That was such a funny thought. And honestly, we all honestly, I didn't have to watch South Park to joke about that. No, you know what I mean? Men would joke about that. It's like the song That Summer by Garth Brooks. Well, I laughed my ass off at that song.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I remember Mary Kayla, is it Mary Kay Laterno, I think is the one of the first big cases of that teacher who had the 14-year-old kid and and ended up having several children with him. Yeah, I think. No, I know Truman. But when that came out, and you know, the uproar from men wasn't see women, you're just like guess. It was men, where were those teachers from? You know, it wasn't we didn't just immediately jump to villainizing female gender in the table. Well uh Okay. But you know what I'm getting out of that. No, help me. Turn it the other way. Well, yeah, exactly. If it was a male teacher doing that to a female student, I mean, even but even men would want to lynch him.
SPEAKER_04:No, isn't that interesting? You know, uh that's the part I don't understand. Like I can't even describe why that's that way in my head. I'm but that's fully wired in.
SPEAKER_05:But it's that sense of right and wrong, and that to us is concrete versus it being an emotional thing. It is very concrete. I think again, if you ask a hundred men, you're gonna mostly get a hundred men who are gonna say, yeah, that teacher needs to rot, otherwise someone's gonna kill him. Right. Same thing did not happen for this Mary Kay Laterno or any of the ones, you know. I mean, there was one more recent, I think it was up in Detroit or Michigan or something like that, where she was even engaged to like start a life with this guy.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And she's stringing this kid along because he broke up with her and like she's torturing him. Like, I can't imagine being a preteen or a teen boy having some adult make threats against me.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, I yeah, I can't either. I mean, it's just like back then even high school relationships were a nightmare.
SPEAKER_05:But it's still not the uproar uh like you're not gonna get the uproar from men going, oh, that bitch needs to die. Really? Instead, we're still making the same jokes, going, man, that dude got some sweet tang before he got out of middle school. I mean, it's you know and we can joke about that. And and while I don't think that women necessarily need to take rape or whatever, or you know, predatory behavior from a male and turn it into comedy, no. I I think there needs to be a little more of that middle I was just talking about in that, hey, let's all band together and make sure that this person doesn't hurt someone else. Right. Instead of it becoming hashtag all men.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And that's the thing is that you know one bad egg can spoil the whole, the whole, whatever that doesn't or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_05:But let's make sure that we understand that one bad bad egg is separated doesn't spoil the whole. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:And it's a shame that it has to be that way. Um and I do know that um well I don't know, I don't know if I want to share this with with your friend, but um there's often situations where, you know, that you know what story I'm talking about. It's up to you if you think which. But what I was gonna say is what you have to say first. Well, I would rather it's your friend's story. I don't I I wanna if you want to gauge what should be shared about it, or we don't have to.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think he really wants to talk about wants that being talked about. That's kind of what I figured.
SPEAKER_04:So, but it in this whole thing, it's like even situations where things are agreed upon mutually as far as like what's safe in the bedroom and things like that. If things go awry, it can be turned against the man. You know what I mean? It's like, well, you know, it's like we had a great relationship, and then we wanted to do these things in the bedroom, and both were agreeing mutually, and then it's like, well, you know what? So then the relationship goes south, and it's like, oh you know what, you just said it perfectly.
SPEAKER_02:Like, my I don't have to touch on any of that from my friend. Yeah. Like I think you just summed that up perfectly.
SPEAKER_04:Right? And it's like, what the hell? It's like you wanted that, and it's like, oh, well, now the relationship went south, so I'm gonna accuse you of things because that's power. Well, and that's that's ruining that man.
SPEAKER_05:That's the thing. Um, I I don't know what the poll would be. I know what my my own preference is. To me, okay, so for my personal self experience and gratification in the bedroom, I don't need power to necessarily play into a pleasurable experience with my partner. Sure. Um I go back to the the aforementioned partner who ended up being the only person I ever had to fight back against. Um we we actually explored some things that she was interested in. Um uh there was a strict schedule to certain aspects of things she wanted done to her. Right. I don't know if we've talked about this stuff in depth, but if you're if you're in the BDSM community, you understand contract structure, you know, safe words, all that fun stuff. And all of it is built on trust. And that that's why a lot of people engage in these kinds of acts to begin with, is that there is a heightened level of trust needed on both sides to both submit or dominate, right? Both, yeah. It's both because both can be uncomfortable, actually. Well what I found, which was interesting, I tried to give what she needed. It became uncomfortable at a certain point for me. Because she wanted so extreme, and that is what led to violence, which then led to that extreme of me having to push back.
SPEAKER_04:Now, when you guys split, did she ever like come back to you and call you a rapist or anything? No, but the Did she ever use that like you sexually assaulted me or something?
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's her throwing her own head into a solid wood door.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. I see what you're saying with that. I see what you're saying with that. That's a physical manifestation of that exact thing. Okay, I got you. Yeah, okay. So it Interesting.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's that's an extreme version of the right in the right usage, it can be a great thing. Because I have had several people that have wanted those kinds of things, right? Yeah. Um like and and I'll just speak on this one because it's it's not even violence. Because just to give you kind of an insight into what those things can be, if you okay, so you you think about the BDSM world and we talk about rope, right? But and it can be a very dangerous thing too. But also think about this. To put someone in some of those Ties, it takes time. Well, what are you doing in that time? Paying attention and showing care and you're talking. You're asking their comfort. You're sharing, you know, just your day and how things it's a very intimate experience. It is.
SPEAKER_04:And built on trust.
SPEAKER_05:That right, you're literally having to trust me because I'm putting this on you, and I'm trusting you to tell me that I'm not hurting you. It's both, too.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You have to trust that they'll tell you they're uncomfortable. It very much has to be.
SPEAKER_05:And there's an awkwardness to that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But the thing of it is that you look at like, okay, so somebody who's not educated in that realm, right, is going to look at a photo of a woman tied up and go, Oh, that's barbaric. That's Yeah, okay. If it's a man, he's probably thinking that. If it's a woman, she's probably going, that's kind of sexy, but I'm not going to say anything. Right? Okay, because it's I don't know where I want to go with this. Okay. But go ahead, keep going. No, uh uh really the point I'm making is that this thing that can be so scary, the reason the fact that it's scary is kind of the part that raises the level of need for trust, right? Yeah. Which deepens the experience. Absolutely. So I understand why people get into it, and I understand why people have specific fetishes, things that they like. Yeah. Because there's a danger to it, and that danger elicits trust in your partner. Right. Right. So that understanding, we could build stronger relationships if we observe that. But unfortunately, the climate that we're in, I would be hard-pressed to be in a relationship like that now because of plausible deniability later. Oh, yeah. If she's upset, I'm fucked. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Because there might not only be her story, but picture evidence. Or, you know, if you if you're not sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like she wanted pictures taken of her and then.
SPEAKER_05:And that's the thing. So it's like that level of trust, there needs to be an acknowledgement from the other side, and this is the male perspective. This is a good one. There needs to be an acknowledgement for the other side that if these are things that you actually engage in have the moral strength, the the discipline, right? The since this is your word, ladies, emotional maturity to not use something that you know is a lie against a man. Because that comes from the fact that you can't physically overpower men, that's a definitive thing. So you take the power through a lie. Right, right. That that lie has built so much against men and has ruined so many relationships.
SPEAKER_04:Going lives, let's go a lot further. Exactly. And I gotta say, you know, on that, it's like one thing that is a big thing is simulation rape. It is. And there's a lot of reasons for that.
SPEAKER_05:It's called What's it called? It can consensual non-consent. Okay, yeah, is what it's called.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And the fact is, is that that is a pretty common um fantasy. Yeah. From the most innocent of people. It is. And the problem is, and and it's not just it the woman is uncomfortable sharing that, that they have that fantasy because of how they'll look. Actually, it doesn't even come from necessarily always having to be like, I'll use that as a weapon, it's that I'll be judged for wanting that.
SPEAKER_05:Right. But I think that's solely female imposed. It is, and actually I was gonna get on. Because there's so many men who are so willing to accept, oh, you're a little fucked up. Me too. Me too. You know?
SPEAKER_02:A lot of women could be like that too, because it's uh I just know from experience, you know, that's happened in you know in the past, and that triggers it somehow, some way. Like whether you think it's fucked up or not, it's happened, but they like the role-playing simulation of it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and and there's also a trust that'd probably be about as much trust as you could give your partner. And I mean, I I know for sure there that there's women out there who have had that legitimately happen to them and have that resim, and it is their kink. And to have that simulated in a safe environment takes the power away from that trauma.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, if they do it in a healthy way, that's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04:In a healthy way, I want to say that.
SPEAKER_05:Right. But that that solely depends on her.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. Because that's her agency to decide that that's what it's for, or that she wants it, or well and okay.
SPEAKER_05:I I I it I don't know if it's controversial or not, but I have always felt like that, especially the BDSM community, is really led by the feminine. Because a lot of these kinks, right, most of them are designed as male dominant female submissive, right? Most of it. There's some switch, there are some switch in it. But for the most part, the things that I have experienced are female-led. Yeah. So that is not a man or male masculine thing. Not yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, it really more manipulates ma masculinity for her for the pleasure of the female. Because if you're, you know, and just from inside that community, if you're a dom worth anything, if you're a dominant worth anything, you know that she's in charge. Yes, that is true. Her submission is not passivity, it's trust. Yeah. Her submission happens because she trusts you.
SPEAKER_04:And she's allowing you to explore.
SPEAKER_05:And the moment she wavers in that trust, it w which isn't a so you know a character assassination of that person, if she says a safe word, it's done. Yeah, you stop co-op. The only thing that happens after that is aftercare.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's comfort and talking about it.
SPEAKER_05:And all of that is focused then on the submissive. So the submissive is the one who controls that whole thing. And if you're in the community, you know that. But if you look at a picture from outside, you're like, look at that abuse, look at that abuse. It looks like yeah. But that's what is wanted. That danger. Yep. The okay. The best way I ever heard this put was in a conversation myself and a partner. What she wanted was the monster who would never hurt her. Oh. That's the beauty in the beast story. Right. Right? Right. Like he could decimate a town, but he would never hurt me. Right. He would conquer a country for me. Right. So the fantasy is the masculine power at her disposal.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Well, and I mean, you and I definitely talk about this, and I think you're maybe already even there, um, is you know, women often want the man to be a beast and dominant in the bedroom, and they desire that. And uh we can show that them in the bedroom, but outside of that, if that monster comes out in a way that is, you know, I'm again out with that, if it's uncomfortable or you know, protection even can go that route. It's like we go too far, like kind of what we said earlier.
SPEAKER_05:You're controlling. No, I'm protecting. Yeah, it is company. It's very complicated. Um but that speaks to when I say we we pull a hundred men versus a hundred women, you're gonna get a hundred men say one thing. You're gonna be the women are gonna say fifty-fifty, two sides of the story. Right. So it very much is a very individual thing with women. It is. It is. And I need those women who understand that to speak up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's happening more and more. It is. I'm very proud of those creators.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because I think toxic femininity is actually going back a little bit. It's being it's being called out finally. And I will say, and I've even talked to my wife about this, is that women are far harder on each other than we are on them. Because think about this. I mean, one thing that it's like you get on Tinder, okay, and I've not been on there, but like definitely hurt people who have been. It's like there's very attractive men who get on Tinder and don't get that many hits. You can get a woman who is objectively I don't like to say it this way. No, I'm trying, I try to say it in a safe way. It's like who objectively isn't there's men who are less attractive than other men. I'm less attractive than you two. Let's let's use it that way. So there's there's there's objectively people who aren't as attractive as others. I'm trying to really Okay, you get the idea.
SPEAKER_05:So you get someone on there like that who is a who is there is a social agreement of what is beautiful and what is not. Well I'm trying to those who are closer to the very graceful with it. No, and I'm trying not to have to do that.
SPEAKER_04:I'm not being derogatory.
SPEAKER_05:If she's a four and he's a no. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Well what I'm saying is you you get that on there, those people still get a billion hits from men.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So and now I think there's a couple of reasons for that. I think men are also willing to just if there's a hole, we'll we'll happily plug the dike so that it's not the flood. I'm saying that. Exactly. I'm saying but that too. But here's the other thing. We don't judge women near as much as they think we're Oh no.
SPEAKER_05:And honestly, I think again, if you go back to the hundred men poll, most of us We need to just do the goddamn poll. Most of us are gonna say no makeup.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_05:Or no plastic surgery. I want to see you natural. Yeah. I mean, ultimately I'm gonna fall in love with the person inside of you. Yes. The external is that's the extra.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I'll say this about Katie. It's like, I think she is a gorgeous woman. Objectively, I think she's a gorgeous woman. But I've you know, out of a hundred men now. We agree. No, no, but what I'm saying, I think many would. She's a beautiful woman. I go out in public and I see men looking at her. And by the way, I don't get to where I'm like, oh, if I'm in a bar and that happens, I'm gonna I don't go to bars, but like it's not like that vibe where I'm like, I'm gonna kick your ass. Honestly, there's a little bit of a pride in that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, sure. I love going out and that Katie makes me. Life is real. It's like I yeah, it's like I could take, yeah, I agree with Tony by saying, like, I'd want the natural look. Like you don't need the makeup. Yes. But if a woman is wearing the makeup and she's really feeling herself and you know she's about to pounce on your ass, it's like that's where it's a great accessory.
SPEAKER_05:You are absolutely right, because the same thing could be said of, okay, so I've done this thing where we have a pretty woman day, right? I take her out and we buy her clothes and this kind of thing. And it's all about her, right? She ends up trying to ask me what I find sexy. Right? The thing that makes you feel the most sexy is the thing I'm gonna say it makes you the most sexy. And by the way, you have to read in you have to read it. But but you can't just say that. No, but that's what I'm saying is I have said that multiple times, multiple relationships. Can you get a good reaction from that? Yes. Here's why. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Because I do say look, I will happily give you my opinion about something. But ultimately, if that opinion does not fall in line with the way you look in the mirror and you look at yourself, then I need you to say, you know what? No, not this one. Yeah. Because to me, the whole point of us being here is to put you in your feels about yourself. Because if you're not trying to like navigate this minefield of bullshit that runs through your head while I'm over here going, what are you thinking about? Nothing. For real. Thinking about nothing other than how pretty you are. But you know that like they're worried about does he think I'm fat? Does he think I'm stupid? Does he like there that if I can buy you clothes that shut that up so I can have a conversation with the girl I'm actually interested in, you're right. That's what I want.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and let me let me share this, and I think it's okay to share, is that um, you know, everybody's got um issues with self-image. Um, Katie too. Um, which I'm I look at her, I'm like, I don't see a single flaw. Here's the thing is that, you know, there was the other night um her and I were together, and uh, you know, we're just having a conversation. I was kind of massaging her body. And no, I think this is okay to share. Because it was- it was it was not sexual in any way.
SPEAKER_02:I was you shut up. It was actually been different as Ryan's ass.
SPEAKER_04:I can't massage Ryan's ass without it being sexual. It's like here, here's Canadian, then here's Ryan's, and then it goes back to just normal point made. Um anyway, so you know, and and while I'm doing this, I kind of came up with this exercise myself for her. It's like, okay, I want you to describe about your body what you like about your body. And she could label, she could name many things. And I said, What don't you like? And she could name like two or three things, just like that. But then she had to really think about other things. And the reason I did that, because she's had she's struggling with some body image post-pregnancy and things, which is normal. But I said, Do you realize how much easier it was for you to label off things that you like more than you didn't? And she's like, Yeah. That's not normal. I know. That's a healthy girl. That is a healthy girl. Yeah, that's the way it should be. And what I was exactly, and what I was doing is she was having a moment of like, I don't look good, I feel gross, blah, blah, blah. And that happens. I feel that way 24-7. But what I'm saying is I did that with her, and it gave her this boost of confidence to remember the confidence you have in your looks. Because you're a beautiful woman. Women are beautiful. And and like I said, you know, she you know, she names off these um, you know, things that she finds imperfect in her body. I look right past them. I don't see it. Well, are there women who are objectively more attractive than Katie? Sure. By a social standard. By a social standard, exactly. But what I'm saying is, no matter who you're with, if you're in love with that person, you can find anybody the most gorgeous person on this planet.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I would say one of the things I'm, you know, I'll actually throw something out that I think is a credit to women, sorry, younger guys, um, that women will gravitate towards an older, more experienced man. Because I know that I know, okay, so, you know, we've talked about I'm a musician, right? I've done some traveling. I've You've seen some things and some stuff. I've been a roadhoer. I've been a road hoe. I've been everywhere, man. Yeah. Um, but you know, back then it was really much more about the outside. And as you get older, you really do realize all that shit's gonna droop, and you're left with what's inside. So you really do start thinking more about the person, which I think women figure out much sooner than guys. Yeah, yeah. Um but they do on that I think that wears off the thing that you're talking about. I I think one of the things, and sorry, we're gonna go back the other way, ladies. That every single relationship I've been in since nope, every every relationship I've every serious relationship I've been in for the past thirty-five years. Um every relationship you've ever been in. Every major relationship, that includes all of them. Okay, literally. Um, for the last thirty-five years, she has relied on me to build her self-esteem up. Sure. Her mere presence builds my self-esteem up. Right? Absolutely. It speaks to the way men love and the way women love. I I mean I think that you over time can grow to a more paternal, true, real friendship kind of love. Yeah. Because I think that takes time to develop. Um but the fact that when we first get in a relationship, and this doesn't have anything to do with age, um you know, I'll walk into well, one of the things that women respond to is confidence, right? You cannot be down on yourself and be confident.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So women will gravitate towards confidence. Okay, we don't look for confidence in a woman. We end up building it for the most part. I guess that's true, I think, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I didn't really thought about that. Yeah, okay. I I don't go out and look for the most confident woman in the room.
SPEAKER_04:No, you're right. I mean, I I can even say to use an example, you know, on our first day, Katie came in and was just glowing to me. I mean, just right off the bat.
SPEAKER_05:And that's the thing though.
SPEAKER_04:The physical attraction is the instant is the instant thing.
SPEAKER_05:But to me, like it goes beyond the physical attraction. I have, okay, musician, you're on a stage. You see all the eyes looking back at you, right? There might be a more objectively cuter girl. But one's looking at you a certain way. But the way that one over there is looking at you.
SPEAKER_04:Which I believe is one of the that you meant. Oh, for second marriage would be that, right?
SPEAKER_05:What the hell was that?
SPEAKER_02:Is that a no I guess thinking too, because like if you do meet someone that she does come across as confident, deep down, you end up finding out she's wearing a mask.
SPEAKER_05:That that is exactly it. There is no confidence there. There it is almost a myth. Yeah. The female, the confident female, and this is the thing too, you also hear about boss babes, right? Okay, having been in that community. A lot of the boss babes are the ones who want to submit. They want to let that down. Well, you know. It's a lot to carry to be that confident, to like yourself that much.
SPEAKER_04:So you know, it's interesting is that there's a movie, A Baby Girl. Did you see it? Yes. That's exactly what that's doing.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, it goes to it goes to weird places. Yeah. But that is exactly that scenario. She's one of the most successful women in the world, not satisfied by her Antonio Brandeiros. Pretty good looking guy. Yeah. And, you know, can't orgasm with him and all that shit. Yet she gets this young guy. You know what I mean? It is different. And she, and I think I don't know the whole psychology behind it, I don't pretend to, but that is the scenario.
SPEAKER_05:It's the power transfer. Yeah. That is exactly what BDSM is all about. Right. Power transfer. And you might have, and I and I don't I'm not disparaging confident women. Good for you for having done the work and truly being confident. Yeah. But those of you who are acting, you know you're acting. Yeah. And when you come into a relationship, you don't expect to look in the mirror and do the hard work. You expect your man to pick you up. Do I look fat in these? Has man has any man ever walked out of the closet and said, Do these jeans make my butt look big? Maybe a gay man. Maybe.
SPEAKER_03:No, I don't know. That's okay.
SPEAKER_05:No, I I hadn't thought of that. But I mean, funny, but also But genuinely, if if you do a sample size. I don't care if it's a hundred or more. But everybody's going out to a party that night, right? Men get ready in about what? I can be ready in like 10, 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I take like 45 minute showers, but once I'm dressed, it's like two seconds.
SPEAKER_05:Well, to to include even getting dressed and all of that stuff, even if it's a really like I've gotta tie the bow tie and everything, half an hour. Yeah. I have had two Many post-party cleanup parties for all the dresses on the floor. I wore one suit. And I'm not talking about orgy. I'm talking about she dried on 80 dresses and finally found one that she would walk out of the house on, but then regretted, of course, because it wasn't perfect. That whole standard, that's not imposed by us. No. Okay, then why are men blamed for the standard of beauty? I think that part is silly too.
SPEAKER_04:It is, but like I said, women are harder on themselves than we are on them.
SPEAKER_05:I think women are hard on everybody, and they need to realize that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I think Asha a lot do. I really do. Like I said, it's I don't think it's out there because the quiet voice, the majority are not heard. But I can tell you most women I know would exactly say that. Katie would say that.
SPEAKER_02:I I know many who would. I've ran situations too that you know it took take take them forever to find something to wear. And there's been plenty of times where they finally found the one. We're about to walk out the door. Oh, on second thought, I don't really like it how it makes me make my arms feel. I'm gonna go check. Son of a bitch!
SPEAKER_04:It's like at this point, you can wear a t-shirt and sneakers. I don't give a shit. Get your ass out the door. Yep. Um, I will say, I just I guess I have to brag on my wife constantly because I just want to. Um that woman knows her style so damn well. It does not take her long to get ready. That's good. That woman knows her style. That's awesome. Um and I think part of that is because she's confident in her in her physical beauty for the most part, but also I definitely build that up in her for sure. I mean, I I'm totally and there there is a difference too, and her and I talked about this too, is of appreciating her as a person beauty and appreciating her sexual beauty. And that's a distinction that is important to her. So it's like, I'm okay to make purely sexual comments, but if I only did that, that wouldn't be okay. And actually, I do understand that. Because there are times that it needs to be like, you just look so gorgeous, and leave it at that. Right.
SPEAKER_05:Well, the root of that is she was born with her sexuality. Right. She had to work hard at who she's become. Right. So I understand acknowledging that completely. Yeah. And I think any meathead douchebag dick that would just catch Possilati in a social. And there's plenty that do, but it's still not all men. Right, right. And that's that's the narrative that I think we're trying to go for on the sexual side of things. Yes. Understand we are the beings that we are, but we need to also understand, as a whole, men, that she does want to be maybe not objectified for what she's become, but at least encouraged in the idea that the woman that you've become is spectacular. You are beautiful, you are gorgeous, you you amaze me in the way you do X or whatever. I mean, that's just the person inside needing that. The sexual comments might be somewhat for her, but mostly that's for us. Oh, yeah. It turns us on.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Turns us the fuck on. I love saying that stuff about her. It's like, oh, I'm I get to acknowledge that out like with voice and even with gestures sometimes. Yeah. And that turns me the fuck on well more than her, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, I you're making me think, okay, my first marriage, it got to the point where I can remember her, and she wasn't cooking, so I know it wasn't that, but she was in the kitchen um and I walked up behind her and just gropped her.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Getting shooed away for that. It was literally not the only thing I ever did, but the fact that it was a power move really. I mean, ladies, if you want to kill a man's spirit, reject him sexually. Reject reject the way he tries to connect with you. Because he's in a lot of times.
SPEAKER_02:But all right. This is all you think about. This is all I'm good for.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Okay, great segue. Because this is one thing I definitely wanted to get to. Okay. So um the thing is, fuck this chair with no arms. Did you really you want to switch?
SPEAKER_05:No. I don't care. Fuck this chair. It's comfortable, but I mean, every time I do this, I'm like, oh, hey guys, what's up? I've been noticing it's gonna be funny on the three. This is our 3D episode. Whoa.
SPEAKER_04:Um, all right. But but one thing I want to get into is that women's sexuality is a superpower. Okay. I mean it absolutely is. Come on. Honestly, gentlemen, we know what rules the world. It is, because I think without that. And I don't even mean that in it's gonna sound like I'm being a fucking whatever, but meathead. But it's not really that. I'm actually acknowledging that for women. And it's like, okay, let me let me throw this out there. So let me throw a couple of these out there, and I think it's fair. Like Alexis when she did her episode. Yeah. I talked about how she did that very sexy selfie of herself in the beginning. But she said she used her sexuality knowingly, knowingly to get people, most real, it's mostly men, I'm sure, to subscribe to her Substack. I asked her about that specifically on the episode. But I know a shit ton of women too that look at women.
SPEAKER_05:Oh yeah. That no, like not even in lesbian terms, but she's like, hey, that's strength. Wow, she is so pretty.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah. And then of course they look down upon themselves for that.
SPEAKER_02:But like people in people in general are like, oh, she's posting this. What has she got to offer? Click on the link.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. But when I asked her, because I asked her point blank in the episode, I said, were you are you okay that that's what you had to do to get clicks? And she's well, I know I'm a beautiful woman, so I'm gonna use that to my advantage. Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Now I'm gonna use an idea for subscribership.
SPEAKER_02:Take that, Ryan.
SPEAKER_04:No, you know what I mean. You know what I legitimately told Ryan. I want to do a social experiment.
SPEAKER_05:Are we gonna do a whole 30-minute episode just with a picture of his ass?
SPEAKER_04:No, I'm gonna superimpose his ass on my face. No, actually, but no, what I think.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, if you could get AI to actually make it talk, though, that would be awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Ask you a few questions.
SPEAKER_05:May I ask you a few questions?
SPEAKER_01:Do you have a mint?
SPEAKER_04:Do you have a mint? Um, but um what I was getting at with that is God, I love it. You know, actually I had the joke with Ryan. I said, I want to do some TikTok posts where you say my script and see if I start pulling in the kind of because what's funny is like I said, he's got like 4,500 subscribers. He's a beautiful man. I'll just I'm gonna Ryan, this is your episode, buddy. I say all this to him in person too. Actually, far uh more. Yeah, yeah. Um but what's funny is I legit want to do because he's got like 4,500 subscribers, and all he does is lift weights and golf on camera. But I told him, I said, here I am putting out substance and have just under 400. You're putting out your body and all this shit, not doing jack shit to benefit anything. And but what's funny is he acknowledges that. He's like, I don't understand it either, other than I'm sexy as shit. I'm like, okay, but he's owning that right there. He's owning his physical whatever. Well I'm saying is I also um, like I said, Rachel, who's gonna be on the podcast, I asked her the same thing. You and I we talked about that at Bob Evits today. Who we're sponsored by? Um we're not. We wouldn't want to be sponsored by them. They're on their way out.
unknown:Probably.
SPEAKER_04:I don't think they're gonna be around at all. Susie's gonna take him down.
SPEAKER_00:Susan, Cheryl, whatever the name. Whatever it is.
SPEAKER_04:We got hit on by an uh elderly lady today. Uh Tony was Tony loved it. I know Tony was getting, I mean, her breasts were right in his face. That's how I know her name. But um, which isn't it, you know, I was talking about, you know, Rachel and I said, I'm not gonna talk about much because she's gonna do an episode or maybe five with all the things she wants to talk about. But she talked about how, you know, she's obviously in a very beautiful woman, you would say so too. Yeah, but she talks about how her beauty might get her in the door, but her brain is what's gonna keep her there. So what I'm saying is you can leverage even your beauty, mostly female, because I think that's just easier for them, but you can leverage your beauty for for um, I guess good what am I trying to say, prof uh gets you in the door somewhere, but then that shouldn't be what keeps you there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I think honestly, Rachel even talked about how that is very insecure for her because she doesn't want to feel like, oh, I got this job because I'm hot. Right. And I'm keeping this job because promoted exactly because oh, this general, or not general, I don't know what level this job is, but she's like, this superior wants to see my ass all day. So that's why I'm getting promoted. And that is something she's terrified of as a in the army.
SPEAKER_05:And I mean, okay, so the thing you're referencing, pr pretty privilege. It's an interesting thing, you know all the terms for everything. I spent too much time on TikTok, apparently. Um, but no, okay, so you get through the door because of your external, but the fact that you got there sets you at less than zero inside your own head. True. Because now you feel like, well, I have to prove that I actually am here. Some people cannot prove. Some people are always gonna be that person trying to chase that, right, and they're always gonna rely on their looks. Right. And if they can't use looks, it's that blue hair screaming thing about how we have to make things fair and we have to and we all know that it's no longer fair. Right. That you know, some of that level of feminism has gone to we don't want to be equals, we want to be superior. Yeah. And that pretty privilege is at the center of some of that. Sure it is. Because once they get there, they don't want to be found out. Right. And the only way to do that is to keep you feeling less than.
SPEAKER_04:So No, and one thing that one phrase that Rachel said a lot when I was talking to her is that she wants to get to the top looking in the eye, not on her knees. I thought that was a really neat quote. That was a really she came up with that, I think herself. So I want to get to the top looking him in the eye, not on my knees. And by the way, I think the way she looks, she could get, and she even said herself, she probably could get a lot farther if she did it on her knees. She said that herself. But she's got enough integrity, and probably.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, but the thing you're literally talking about, okay, where strength is our beast, beauty is there. That's really what I'm saying. And the fact that she has the discipline. Yeah. She's yep. Okay, that I respect. Yeah. That to me would be a safe person. That would be a safe woman to have a conversation with.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And I might actually even be able to be an emotional being in her presence because she does have the discipline to not fall into the things that are natural to the quote species. You know, she that I respect. Having that kind of discipline is awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I I Katie's very much that way, too. So I mean, that's the thing, is that there are they are out there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:All you all you middle disciplined moms, come on, let's speak up. I'm serious.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, that's the problem, is is the the moderate people just aren't allowed and well, we're comfortable. You get comfortable. And are the are these people um on the extremes um is it because they want to identify with a group? Is it because they legitimately have idealism? Do they just want attention? Because those of us in the middle are just kind of like I mean what is worth fighting for? It's in the middle.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, there are podcasters who even have blue hair. Yeah. Like that's of course you want the attention of it. You're not doing it for true social justice. I think there's a there's a point to that, true. Yeah, I do. But I think that that that doesn't know a no agenda even. I think that's period.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, well, and I could say, you know, there there's certain things, uh not to whatever here, but there's certain things I've done with this on purpose to make sure the minute the message isn't corrupted. I do not I've been offered sponsorships. Right. I do not take them.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And honestly, I don't know what the potential is for all that. I I know I've been offered some things, but I've chosen not to take it for many reasons. One of them is that this is about the message.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's not about anything beyond that. And honestly, that probably is to my detriment often because I don't know what the potential for money is for this. But I'm sorry, when you get too much money involved in things, what are people going to question now? Oh, you're only you're only doing that for that. Well, it becomes someone else's mouthpiece. And fuck that shit.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because I've interviewed one person who absolutely struggles with that. And it's something that this person's not overly comfortable with. But for self-sustaining life and all that stuff, they have to do it.
SPEAKER_05:And I don't think any of us fault that person for it. I don't, actually. But once you know that, it completely taints. And by the way, they only did that once. But it completely taints the message.
SPEAKER_04:It does, and that's exactly why. So, you know, and uh here's the other thing is that um I always name drop this person, Michelle Hammer, who's a schizophrenic content. You've heard me drop her a lot. She did this video on TikTok where she she's she's getting mad at people for thinking that we're putting mental illness content out there for attention. It's like attention for the cause. This is incredibly uncomfortable to put out there. I know we're getting off topic, but she is reminding me of that.
SPEAKER_05:It's like, but it's it I guess it goes into the men's issue is an uncomfortable topic. You're told to shut up. So good.
SPEAKER_04:Bringing it back in. Yeah, they can bring it back in. But it it the things that are uncomfortable to talk about are actually not for our attention. It's it's not. Oh, sorry. It's for people that are suffering that don't have to be a few. And that's my voice.
SPEAKER_05:And that you're not alone. And that you're not alone.
SPEAKER_04:And unfortunately, I mean, okay, let's go ahead and uh go this route because you you know that one content creator, that guy, who's a life coach. You remember this?
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I thought of him earlier in the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I was gonna bring him up. I had it on the docket on the docket. I mean, he he he's uh he's such an evolved No, I wanted because I thought I wanted to bring him up because it actually is kind of it is related to this, honestly. Um because I I've got somewhere I want to go with that. But I I want you to talk about how you know what he was saying, because you can probably voice all this better than me, and what you were saying and how you were countered. Yeah. You were shut the fuck down, and you were absolutely in the right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you would know this.
SPEAKER_05:So there was a there was a content creator who created a video, and uh he's got a pretty big following. He literally just I mean, he he expanded on it, but he started by leaning into the camera and going, sex is not a need. That was really the whole post. That was the whole post, but then of course he made. And so the conversation I put out there is, okay, but from which perspective? I can understand, and I have spoken with many females who have said, Well, I you know, I could live without it. I really could. I know a couple who I can't, as a man, and I've spoken to several men. I agree to that. It is absolutely at our core programming. We are programmed to procreate and by think that way. And it's and it's yes, the procreation that is the core of it. That is what we're talking about is procreation, but we are delivered procreation via our sexual intent. What what we see as sexy, we want to possess and then procreate with, right? So it's a whole process, but to say sex is not a need. And I even countered in part of it by saying let's talk about hierarchy of needs. If you look at the very foundational base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, sex is included. It is part of. And these idiots actually can't, and fuck you, now you can't censor me. Idiots. Thank you. That's why I wanted you to bring it up. I'll probably tag that fucker. Please do. You fucking piece of shit. No, I was mad about it too. Because the thing of it is, is if you're gonna say that, say that it's a perspective.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you. And that goes because any men can understand that it's a perspective of certain people, but to say blanket it's not a need, really honestly, is telling a large majority of men you're wrong. Everything you feel is wrong. Yeah. The fact that you're so upset about it, that's stupid, because it's not a need. Well, you know he was pandering anyway. Of course we know he was pandering. And and the fucking idiot responses I got, oh my God, people trying to shame me into cheering for sexual assault. Yeah, they did. Cheering for You got ridiculous. Oh, it was so stupid. Like Then you called me or did you call me after that? Oh, I sent you the link to it and said, look at these dumb guys. Now I was reading the comment. I'm just like, I was like They were eviscerating me. It was rough. They were trying really hard to do.
SPEAKER_04:They were making you look like a predator to shut me up.
SPEAKER_05:And I just kept going back. And finally you gave up. Well, why wouldn't you? What I said is you cannot counter the fact that okay. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? This pyramid, it was created with sex in it. It was later on changed to procreation. Are any of us in this fucking room stupid enough to not know what procreation is?
SPEAKER_04:Censorship. Unnecessary censorship. It's it's on aliving versus suicide.
SPEAKER_05:And do you know these idiot fucks actually got out there and like, oh, I think we're fine. Well, no, you're saying I think it's fine if you don't procreate, Tony, but everybody else is gonna keep having what? Sex. Fuck you. You're idiots, you're complete and total utter fucking morons. They are. You want to have an argument that you can't defend. So you start picking on the person because you think you can get in the fields. And yeah, I'm upset by it. You were. I am absolutely upset that logic and fact and reality is non-existent to you. To them. That you literally can fight those things and feel empowered and righteous.
SPEAKER_04:Here's the thing you know who was mostly countering you was men. Did you look at the profiles that were countering you? It was also men.
SPEAKER_05:Well, no, it was there was a good I still get messages of fucking About that?
SPEAKER_02:Loser ass is it still active, everything's still up there? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah, I got one maybe a week or two ago. But I also still get hearts from people hearting my message.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. But you know what? Who's having the strength to say something with you? Right. Well that's the thing. Is anybody commenting like commenting? Very few. It's like, okay, again.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. No, they full on painted me to be a predator rapist. Yeah, they did.
SPEAKER_04:In about every way, but just saying it. The words. Yeah, no, they were very And if TikTok wouldn't censor that shit, it would have been on there.
SPEAKER_05:Well, they were very tech savvy or TikTok savvy. Yeah, they were. They got around it. How they well, the SA abbreviations saying predatory actions and grape and all these other things. It's like, come on. You literally I think they need to be graped in the math. Oh my God. Tie into the radiator. Whitest kids you know. Whitest kids you know. Look it up, folks. Have you seen this? It's the best skit in the world. I fucking love those guys. They never should have been taken off the air. Oh, that's awful. That was some funny shit, folks. Um, but yeah, I think I think it's very I don't know. Like, what is it for comedic value to say you're um an an enlightened person? Like that is go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:No, what I'm gonna say is the difference between comedy and that bullshit is comedy is meant to make light of those things. When people take that shit seriously like that, when he came off like, no, this is what I believe, and it's that level of just ignorance and stupidity.
SPEAKER_05:But I can I can even have a conversation and agree to disagree with somebody who believes something I don't believe. Sure. Yeah. But when you resort to character assassination and straw man arguments, get me to shut up?
SPEAKER_04:Like and that's the thing is you're only you're only building the fight. You're only making you matter.
SPEAKER_05:Which is the whole culture. But if you go back and read that whole thread, I literally dismantle and call out every single thing they're doing. They don't respond to those things. They just keep calling names. Oh, yeah. That's all it is. But that that oh God. I know. I see the vein in your head, bro.
SPEAKER_04:Like, I'm serious. I knew that would get you. Oh but it it it goes.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, cash me outside, fucker.
SPEAKER_04:No, but what's about that? How about that? But what's interesting with that is the misconception, let's let's leave that the knee part out of it. The misconception that men only want sex for sex's sake. Because I can tell you, I have no like we said earlier, the attractiveness to other women, yeah. I mean, it is a thing. Like, but I have no desire to be with anybody but my wife. And I need connection for sex, and that is an expression of love. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:So let me broaden that discussion for you. Because you know that I have been in relationships that are not completely monogamous, right? Yes. All right. Now, uh and openly so, not like deception. We're talking about having a partner and an addition. Right. So the there is a difference between connected intimate sex and sex. Yeah. A big difference. And this is not just a male perspective. I have talked with multiple partners about this. There is a very real difference, and both sexes want that. Now, I'm not saying every person, just as I would not say all men. It it is a very individual thing, but you cannot say blanket that it is not both sexes that want that. And you honestly, if you need any more proof, if men are the ones who cheat, who are we fucking? And amen.
SPEAKER_04:That is a good point. What I want to say too is men are commonly the ones who are labeled that that's what we need. It's just purely sex. We're we're labeled that's what we want. But it's not. But it's not. But you look at women, I don't see a lot of women labeled as you just want to fuck this guy. Well, because there's social stigma on being a hoe. That's what I'm saying. But they're not okay with that stigma. And we're not, I mean, I know plenty that we're hoes. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But what I'm saying with that is to corrupt something that is a connection, it is an expression of love. It is all of those things.
SPEAKER_02:It's so much deeper than just Yeah, I need an intimate connection and vibe. And I need that. Yeah. Because you've experienced both.
SPEAKER_04:Is that okay to say?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean you have both. It doesn't feel like that. Mentally and physically doesn't feel the same as if you don't have that connection versus if you do have that connection. Yeah. I prefer the connection.
SPEAKER_04:3D versus 2D. I've only I've only been with Katie, and and here's the thing uh too, is that I've had people ask me, and I've thought about this myself too, is that you know I've never experienced anything with anyone else. Nobody. You and Ryan. Well, only his ass. Oh. But he was asleep one night and he doesn't know what's that goes. I get off he didn't one night. Um with my dick um under the blanket. Oh, I thought we were in the slow jerk, whitest kids.
SPEAKER_02:Um you gotta get your shoulder into it.
SPEAKER_05:Um whitest kids you know. Yeah. Look him up.
SPEAKER_04:Um But what I was gonna say is um, you know, she's the only person I've ever been with, and there's people who've asked me, like, do you regret not being with someone else? There are aspects of that, sure. Because of the exploration side of it and and and experimentation and all that stuff. But a lot of people that I've talked to about that, which I don't know anybody else who's been exclusive of one person their entire life. I don't know another person. It's pretty rare. Katie's also that way, too.
SPEAKER_05:But most of them will say, most of them say And I will note I will also note, too, as a footnote to that, I know people who have been married 60 and 70 years that have not been with just one person.
SPEAKER_04:Fair enough. Fair enough. But what I was gonna say is often when I've had that conversation, they ask me that, and I say, yeah, there's there's curiosities about it, but honestly, I think that's a strength. A lot of them have said, I wish that was the way it was for me. I'm not saying there's a right perspective on that, because I actually I get both sides of that, truly. But I will say it it left out so many external complications. There was a a thrill to explore with the one person.
SPEAKER_05:And I think if you if you if you look at the emotional aspect of sex from both a male and female perspective, yeah, I think that the most romanticized version of that is one man, one woman, that's it. Yeah. That's both sides. I honestly think that the emotional That's the most romanticized version. I I think that that if if you ask somebody what the perfect version would be in their head, it more often than not is gonna it's gonna have mostly that aspect to it.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right. And I will say, you know, I I will not name this couple because I don't I shouldn't, but I do know a couple that were married and you know the man cheated on the woman and it broke up the relationship and all this stuff. That family demonized him completely. I know your friend has complications with that situation, so I'm not gonna invalidate any of that. I will not, because I know that's a that's a plethora of issues. But I will say it was not about sex. What? For for that the cheating was not, it's never about sex, truly. Most often, no. That well, okay, fair enough. Most of again, we don't need a blank statement, but even in his case, and I know others, I don't know about your friends.
SPEAKER_02:No, I'll I'll let you get to your point.
SPEAKER_04:But what I was gonna say is um in his case, he was denied, he was rejected for that, which as you said earlier, that's one of the worst things you can do to a man is that they reject that core expression of love and affection. And I know there were deeper issues going on in that relationship too, but that is why he did it. There was no conversation around it, it was just you don't need that, you you don't just get that shit out of here. You know what I'm saying? And that's why he got it elsewhere. Right. They divorced and he ended up marrying that woman. But what I will say is I think he looks back and says, his first wife was a much better fit for him. But his current wife will provide that side of it, and there's still a connection there. But I'm sorry, it is important. That goes back to the need side of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I I um yeah. It may but it also made me think of the whole um a couple of different things. The 80-20 principle. You're in a relationship and you're with somebody and you've got 80% of it. Which 80%, I think all of us can agree, is that's that's a pretty good portion. If you have the you know, perfect woman and you've got 80% of that woman that you've always wanted, yeah, you're doing pretty well. But you get used to that 80, and so you start looking for the 20. Right. And you find somebody who's got 20. Yes, I know what you're talking about. And then you leave to go get that extra twenty. And then you miss your eighty. But now you're without the eighty.
SPEAKER_04:Right. So it I think that's very similar to what happened to the gym, the guy I was.
SPEAKER_05:Very probably. It it doesn't lend to as much depth. Right. But also, ladies, um, you wonder why she's not as pretty as you. That's why. Because you hear that all the time. Well, how could he go cheat with that heifer? You do hear that a lot, actually. And it's that's why. Because she provided that 20. And and and to go back to my friend, tell me it's not a need.
SPEAKER_04:If it'll ruin literal good relationships.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and if you'll make the as a man, the illogical choice of this okay, I'm just gonna be graphic about it. Go ahead. I'm gonna take this ugly heifer because she'll fuck me versus the one who gave me children, but denies me, puts me down, hasn't her great desires. Doesn't yeah, all of those things, right? Yeah. I'll go be with the ugly heifer who looks up at me like I'm a god over all the things that are good for me. Yeah. And I don't get to see my kids now. Yeah. You know, and that's not a true story. This is not true. Like, this is not my life. No, let's do it. It is the generalized version of this, but this is what you always hear. And that's why. You want to know why he's stupping the you know, house cleaning lady that doesn't speak English that, you know, maybe looks a little more like Cartman than you would think he would deserve. That's why. Cartman than J-Lo. Whoa.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway.
SPEAKER_03:No, but but you guys and think about bug.
SPEAKER_04:But like, seriously, like there there that is just such a unfortunate I mean that's insane.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Everybody to just simply label it as not a need, and unfortunately, I as in that particular relationship and and even others, you know, to do that is absolutely going to cause that. And what I'm gonna say is that doesn't justify it because that needs to be a conversation on both sides, by the way.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, no, cheating should cheating is never justified. I don't care either side. No female. It's not. Don't fucking cheat. If you need to do that, have the conversation breaks up your relationship. You weren't meant to be in that fucking relationship if it's that important. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:If you're thinking about it, get the fuck out. Like have a conversation or get the fuck out.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, because there are a lot of things that can complicate that whole situation. But I will say both sides have to be confident enough in each other to come together and say, hey, this is a problem, these is why this need is not being met at all. And this is honestly, this is the desire I'm having. I really am so tempted to go seek it elsewhere because you're not capable of providing it.
SPEAKER_05:And it's like do you fucking shadow work people?
SPEAKER_02:And that's what fucking sucks with my with my friend situation.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Wasn't told any of that. No communication, no, hey, I need this, I need that. It was still I love you every day. I know.
SPEAKER_04:And then it's like, I'm telling you, like, if if couples can come together and have the conversation, let's say there's an impasse. This person doesn't want to do it. I'll tell you what that's what I'm saying. This person just cannot do it, can't provide that, or isn't capable of whatever this person desperately needs it and won't live without it. There can be an amicable understanding. It can happen. Certainly. Certainly. It's like, okay, then this is an incompatibility that is insurpassable for both of us. And this is going to build up resentment so much on both sides that it becomes hatred. You can you can identify that issue and kind of work out the details of it before it become escalates to a level where that relationship is not salvageable on any level. And a good couple is capable of that.
SPEAKER_02:My friend's had plenty of opportunities over the years that he could have been the one that cheated. Because he wasn't being met with needs.
SPEAKER_04:Most of the time, both could.
SPEAKER_02:He was presented opportunities to cheat, and he could have taken them.
SPEAKER_04:And there's immense strength in not doing it, by the way. That is that discipline you're talking about.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. You know how much discipline that fucking takes? For for both sides. For both sides?
SPEAKER_02:And she never knew about it.
SPEAKER_05:That conversation never took place. And I I want to add to that too, as someone further down that path, having been someone who has not only been cheated on, but cheated on, the the pain is the same. I mean, it might be a different perspective you're experiencing, but if you really truly cared about that person you cheated on, which is why that communication piece you're talking about, which I want to bring a point up about, if if if there was genuine care between the two of you, the pain is the same. So while the friend, uh, you know, friend's wife might be in complete denial about it, right? Trust that that crown of thorns is being worn. It may not ever reach your ears, but I guarantee, I guarantee something that's painful. The suffering is the same. You know what you did to your family. And especially that becomes a pattern. That's a pattern. It can be.
SPEAKER_04:This is the thing. I've heard too many people say once a cheater, always a cheater. Okay, I've heard that too. Not in the I mean, in your friend's case, that is how it was.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, in my friend's case, yes.
SPEAKER_04:But you're right. That's absolutely patterned. You're kind of proof of that, am I correct?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Having been the one who cheated, yeah. I don't I I have the conversations now.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:That's the thing. You learn from that. I know who I am.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And what you know that you're not afraid to speak up for. But this is the thing. The growth from being cheater is understanding what you owe your partner. Okay, that's that's a neat perspective. Regardless of gender. That's a neat perspective. What you owe your partner to be in a relationship, it's why there's never a justification for cheating. Right. Ever. And it's and it's why, like I say, having having the unique perspective of both sides of being cheated on and cheating, it it is not okay. When you cheat on okay, let me speak from that perspective. When you cheat on someone, if you genuinely cared about that person. Which you did. Right. Yeah, which I did. Um you understand because you live it, especially if you try to work it out. And there's just no live the shame of it, and you internalize, and you start to feel completely worthless, self-imposed, but then there's also the little times when they're like, Yeah, but there was that one time you and it's never gonna go away. Yeah. Ever. So, no reason to cheat on somebody because if you cheat on somebody, you're done. I'm sorry, even as somebody who works in therapy, right? Mental health. You're never getting over it. I don't think it ever goes away. I think you can come to an agreement on it, but if but if one person can't accept it, you're done. You are done. And learning that as the person who cheats, yeah, you're not left with many options. You thought you had all the options. Right. You took advantage of one of them and you lost them all. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So to see those kinds of perspectives and understand there's never there's never a reason. Right. Okay, if you meet somebody, you fall in love, you're absolutely head over heels with this person. Maybe it's not the first date, right? Right. Don't bring this up on the first date. No, no. But you have to talk to that person and say, hey, what would you think if I if I like you're right. And and if she counters with, well, I kind of like there's there's room to work. Right, right. But if she says uh no, or he says, uh no, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:There's nothing to work with.
SPEAKER_05:You you then you have to decide is this person someone I really truly genuinely love and can be the one and only with.
SPEAKER_04:And that's exactly right, because it it goes beyond love, it's compatibility. There are plenty of people that love each other deeply but are not compatible. Agreed. They should not be together. No. First wife. Right, okay, fair enough. But then okay, so this leads me to do a bit of a thing. So you don't grow apart, you're supposed to grow together. Right. And I was on YouTube, and you know, I've seen these ads all the damn time for um, you know, this this hotline you call that, oh, uh, call this hotline and you'll know if your person's cheating on you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, I've seen those.
SPEAKER_04:What? Have you not seen that? They're everywhere. They're on TikTok everywhere. It's like if you suspect your partner of cheating, it's always a fucking woman. There's never a man dialing the phone. It's isn't it always a woman? Always always a woman. Oh.
SPEAKER_05:Where they come up, yeah, they call like you can call from another number.
SPEAKER_04:What text? No, there's that, and then there's a whole thing. Yeah, I don't know what the fucking thing even goes. And then you can like see their text and like who they've been contacting. Plug in their number and irritation pop up. Here's the thing, and that's what irritates the fuck out of me about it. If you're that insecure.
SPEAKER_05:You either need to have the conversation or get the fuck out. Well, okay, so I have been avoiding bringing this up, and I'm sorry if you have a thing, I'll make this really short. It'll look like you wanted to speak.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no.
SPEAKER_05:Let's let's acknowledge in this episode that men and women communicate differently. Men are very direct. Yeah. That is how we we have a fact, we want your ears to hear the fact. Women are indirect. They have a fact or a feeling, and they're going to paint you a picture so that you can understand all the nuances of, but the actual topic, especially if it's a hard topic, is not addressed.
SPEAKER_04:Not directly. Yeah, you're right. There's dancing around it, there's there's touching on aspects, but not getting to the root of it. Absolutely. 100%.
SPEAKER_05:If you ask a man what time it is, he's gonna tell you what time it is. If you ask a woman what time it is, she's gonna tell you, well, the gears are turning, and this one turns that gear, and this one, and then the big hand, and then the there's this idea that if I tell you enough information about it You'll get you'll get the and I think even that sometimes I I'm I'm a man, so what the hell do I know? I'm guessing at this. I think a lot of that communication style is based in insecurity. Of course it is. Because instead of stating a direct fact, you say everything around it and hope you kind of covered everything. You know, like if I ask you something direct and somebody starts describing all these things to me, I'm like, why are you lying to me? Why are you putting all this other stuff?
SPEAKER_04:You know what's interesting? Are you you good if I Yeah, go ahead. Okay, because I want to comment on that because, okay, you know I'm an ungodly, painfully direct person. Oh, you're ungodly. Yeah, it's uncomfortable for most people. Um, you're probably two of the people it's it's not. Um but it um I know like there's certain people I talk to that I want to get to depth of things. They don't mean me there. My approach to try to get these people there is not to change the directness, and I learned this in therapy, by the way. It's just be just as direct, but try to come from every fucking angle. It's like I'll be fucking direct, but I'm gonna come at it this way. You don't get it there, okay. I'm gonna try to prod you from this angle. And it's like you're just as direct, but you're approaching it from different perspectives, trying to just nudge them in whatever direction. So I guess what you're saying is maybe women do that, but don't actually want to get there's not actually substance to it. Is that what you're kind of saying? Or I'm not as much direct as a problem.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not saying what'd you say? That's what your question, that's how I took it. What your question was. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I'm I'm not saying that there's not substance to it. I'm saying not the right word. It's nuanced in the sense that it is not direct. If if you said, hey, hand me that drum over there, I'm gonna pick up the drum, I'm gonna hand you that drum. Right. If the the the female way might be too, well, how would you like me to hand you the drum? Would you do you do you need it this way or something? Which one's the drum? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Or that I can't believe you just which one's the drum. Is that the symbol of the drum?
SPEAKER_05:But but that's the thing, is it's more detail oriented, not topically oriented.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I agree. And and I will say I I have I've met Go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:But that's base programming. Yeah, yeah, it is. And I don't know if it's the way we're raised or the way the actual brain is made. That's the part I gotta figure out. Well, I don't I there's obviously we're built differently, is is No, there's definitely structural differences. There are structural differences, male and female brain.
SPEAKER_04:Brain in more than just body, like it goes down to also brain functionality and all that. We we know hormones and all that shit. It's very we are completely different. And it's okay to accept that there are core differences we have and strengths we can play on in different genders to come together to become more of a power together. You know what I'm saying? I guess that's the whole freaking thing of this episode, really, is these are the struggles from a man's perspective. That's important.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But we'd love to have not the whole story. It's not the whole story, it never will be because we are a separate species. From women, we really are, and that's okay. You women have strengths that we will not have. The the nurturing nature of a woman, I here's possessed. I want to use this example, and I think it's a great one. So that's gonna seem random at first, but it absolutely hits this point. So, you know, obviously we have a son, Max, and at night, um, Max will wake up out of nowhere crying. So Katie, out of nowhere, is like, no problem, goes over there and and you know, hugs him and all this stuff. Or like, you know, holds him to get him back to sleep. Okay, and it's not that I wouldn't do that. So I don't want it to sound like that. But here's the thing I want to get to is okay, so we have it we have the new puppy Mickey. I'm getting somewhere for this. So we have the new puppy Mickey, he's like eight months old, and he needs out in the middle of the night and wakes me up. I am ungodly livid that I have to get my ass out of bed to let this dog out. Okay, so what I'm saying here is, but he relies on me to do that. I'm livid about it. That woman, no anger, no nothing, the desire to comfort that child surpasses the complete inconvenience of being woken up at 3 a.m. That is not how I would handle that. I I mean I go do it and I wouldn't be like mad as I am at this dog. He's my son, but you think I wouldn't be grumbling on my way over there? 100% I would be.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:What? You it's the exact opposite of and okay, so I well more feeding in the nurturing nature of a woman versus. Yeah, and postpartum played a role in this. But I worked we worked out a situation where my wife would go to bed around eight or nine, and I would be up with him all night. And I would get to go to bed around four or five, whatever. Like if I if I laid him down around three thirty, I was good to go to bed around four once I knew he was down. Right. Because he would sleep for anywhere from an hour and a half, two, three hours initially, right? Yeah. It was and is probably one of the greatest things I think I've ever done in my life. And it is probably one of the more personal things I it is hard to talk about without there being emotion in my voice. But I remember getting to go in, and I say it that way, getting to go in and rock him back to sleep and sing him songs and have that connection with him. I think men are very much capable of doing that. I think what ends up happening though is that it's not necessarily our first thought, and I will say it was daunting as hell when I first started. It became more natural, but I've seen too many women just oh, it's the baby, I'm gonna pick it up, I'm gonna rock it, I'm gonna comfort it, I'm gonna.
SPEAKER_04:It's not natural to us, but it is. Thank you for sharing that, because that's an important perspective, because the opening's not necessarily open for me near as much to be that. Right, and Max will not let me be that either.
SPEAKER_02:See, that's where I'm completely different when uh I am nurturing like that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I know you are.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And uh And now I sound like a complete fucking father fucking father here.
SPEAKER_05:It is we don't. But this is the thing, I mean, you're not a single father. No. Okay, single fathers have to become that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, the nature of things isn't what you know the bookends are here. Right, right. You are more in line with the nature of the sexes. Right. She is gonna get up and do it because good God, you sorry, buddy, but you became second, possibly third with a new puppy.
SPEAKER_02:Now, Max is, you know, naturally attached to anybody.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I mean, so they're gonna gravitate, so you are gonna get squeezed out. Yeah. And the only reason I got to do what I got to do is because she wasn't in the picture.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:I guess that that I'm not gonna let her. But the point I really wanted to make is that I think all of these things that aren't strengths doesn't mean we can't do it. Yeah. And the same goes for women. Okay. But let's say it this way: are you ever gonna be as strong as me? No, but you can get your ass in the gym, you can look bigger than me, you can be all you can do all those aspects of it. But that one thing you're probably not gonna get to, right? Right. Same thing with let's say, even just the example you just used. Yeah. And being a nurturer, do am I close to my son? Yes. Did we get touchy feely? Do we two this very day? Still hug. I still give my son a kiss. He's 17 years old. I still give him a kiss on the cheek. On your tiptoe. Yeah, well, yeah, because he's fucking six feet taller. We get my stool. Let dad get his tip stool. But the idea is that there are gonna be certain aspects of deep, deeper emotional interactions that men are gonna struggle with more so because we're not as able to categorize an emotion that is further away from anger.
SPEAKER_04:That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. And I mean, um I mean I mean I'm an incredibly emotional person. Yes, you are, you fucking Well, I know I am, but the thing is, is that Um It is a different vibe than than some, I think. I I'm very intense with my emotions, and often it doesn't come off very soft. And that's that's a struggle that I that even. And honestly, what's interesting, what's amazing about Katie is that she's had to understand that. That's not something she comes from. That's not something she was comfortable with.
SPEAKER_05:Well, she was raised by her mom, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right, but she's yeah, fair enough. Yeah, okay. But what's interesting about that is she has come to actually appreciate that. I have pushed her to explore things, like as far as internally, that she's not was never probably going to, or I've kind of in some ways forced her into thinking of things differently, like understanding male perspectives a little differently. You know, where certain people in her life were not looked upon very fondly for different situations, but I had to be like, no, can you try try this? Yeah, try this, think of it this way, because I think pretty much no situation is black or white, and I think certain situations are incredibly nuanced, and when you're fed one side of the story consistently, you're not gonna see the other side. So turn toward feminism. Red pill. Both, right? And honestly, red pill was a counter to f to toxic femininity.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_04:That was not around until then. It wasn't. Oh no, I know. That's why there was a surgence of that.
SPEAKER_05:But again, we're talking about those extremes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, what I'm getting at is that was in response to this. Right, sure. Quite completely. Red pill was not a thing until that toxic femininity built up so damn much the men had to be like, fuck this shit. We're gonna double down on our side. Well, and I mean But there's validity in both sides, is the interesting thing.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Just they're extremes.
SPEAKER_05:So, alright, the the other part of you know, the red pill thinking too was the MIGTO. You've heard of that? Men going their own way. Oh, yeah. Okay. So now I know you're going with it. Well, the interesting thing is nowadays they're talking about the male loneliness epidemic, right? I unfortunately, I think it's not being labeled as MGTO, but I think it's being labeled, it's been rebranded as I I'm I'm keeping my peace. Yes. And doing it on my own. And it is a legitimate thing. Yeah. Um no, there was one video you sent me.
SPEAKER_04:It was a guy making it, it was a conversation with himself, if you remember. You sent me this a while back. It's exactly this. The guy's like, Well, won't you miss that? No, I'm just gonna go like fish and come home and do it. Well, weren't you gonna miss like somebody coming? No, not really. No, like it's just like I know the feeling. Right? And but here's the thing is that if you're in a good relationship, and I'm in a good one, do I have a desire for separation in times and some distance? Absolutely. Do I crave to get back to my wife and my son? Absolutely. I do crave it. I also crave the opposite. I need some space too. Sure.
SPEAKER_05:But I do get I think women would say the same thing. Sure. Sure. I think it is healthy to be individuals as one.
SPEAKER_04:And that that is a big struggle with certain couples that I see is they don't have an individuality. Yeah. One person usually is absorbed into the other. And it's usually not forced to be that way.
SPEAKER_05:No.
SPEAKER_04:Because I can tell you in one particular case, this guy actually very much fraudded his woman. Do your thing, explore your thing. You need that for yourself. But yet she continued to still kind of insert herself in his passions and his interests, though she didn't have that. Now they found a compromise where they kind of just do their own thing in the same room and that really works. And I've done that. But that's that's good. That's still connection. That doesn't need to be interpreted as, oh, they're not, they're not together, they're not in the same space. It's no, it's it's not that. Because the fact is, these two people have completely different interests. There's there's not many things that align. But you can be in the same presence and still talk to each other while you're doing your own thing, and that's connection right there. So again, it's ex it is navigating different things and and and navigating different needs and and compromising, but you can also find those connections together. It may not look like what the textbook thing that's out there to do, but like good great couples find that, and they do. And it it is I I think there's so many things that are just established as this is the way it should be when it comes to religion, when it comes to politics, when it comes to relationships. It's like there's nuance to everything. Everything, and most of us on all of it, maybe not so much religion. I won't know if I'll include that in it, but I think most of us on all of it are pretty damn much in the middle.
SPEAKER_07:Most of us.
SPEAKER_04:Most of us.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I just I think for me is uh I have no desire to be in a relationship, so it's like I don't know what I want. I just like my own peace, I like my own comfortability. You're there after being such in a toxic ass relationship, yeah. It's like I am completely comfortable. Like, I don't need to go to parties to make friends or do what is like I because I hear that. Like, how would you come out and go to so-and-so's house and there'll be a lot of people there? Nah. Well, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna go fishing or I'm gonna play on my PC. Yeah. Well, that's not very productive. It is to me. Like, I don't need people. Thank you. I don't need people. Like Yeah. I mean, people have, you know, it's just it's like I've found my own peace. Like, yes, could I go out and make friends and have more people within my inner circle? Yeah, I could. But on the flip side, I've had people in my inner circle that has fucking burdening.
SPEAKER_04:You have upset. Talk about it on a podcast episode with me.
SPEAKER_02:Nope.
SPEAKER_04:You've had some good burns. I mean some good ones.
SPEAKER_02:So it's like I just found my own peace. Like, I don't need to, I don't need anybody's validation. No.
SPEAKER_04:And by the way, it takes a while to get there. It does. That's not something you're just innately like, eh, you have to have some shit happen to you or situational things that cause you to realize, you know what, I don't need the drama from other people.
SPEAKER_02:It's like I don't stay away permanently. I mean, there's times I I'll go out and do things every once in a while, but it's not but it's at your own agency.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It's when you need it.
SPEAKER_05:I think it's it's kind of the Cartman taking his ball and going home kind of thing, is the way it's branded.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:When you're done when men, you know, MIGTAW men go in their own way, or male loneliness epidemic, or screw you guys, I'm going home. Or I'm going to go live my peace. I think all of those things are the same thing with different branding. Yeah, exactly. It's it's the different perspectives of it. And I and I think a lot of those things, I think the the word incel was created as a dig against people who really were just fed up. Is there a certain amount of humanity, both male and female, that will probably never know the touch of another? Possibly. Yes. And and those people, that sucks. That sucks if they really want to be with somebody. I I wish that that would happen for them. But people who are genuinely choosing, because I mean Well, that's the core of the show, adolescence, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I don't know. Well, that's the Netflix show on that. Yeah, that's the core of that.
SPEAKER_02:Probably the only downside that I would say, you know, being on your own and having that piece is that there's sometimes you want to talk about shit and you wish you had someone there.
SPEAKER_05:Right with the silence can be deafening.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, where you, you know, whether it is a if you had a positive, great day, or you had just a complete and utter shit day and you just want to talk about it on two sides of the coin, and there's no one to talk to. That's the only downside I gotta think.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and and it is different to call up a friend and say that rather than someone you're romantically connected to.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I'm saying. That's the only thing that would suck about not being uh being in uh romantically involved with somebody is that aspect alone. Like you know you can go home and talk to that person.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But like you said, silence is deafening.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I guess there's I mean there's also a sexual frustration, I guess. If you're somebody needs, you know, connection to but that I mean there's ways around that too.
SPEAKER_02:There's ways around that. Maybe you had one, you've had them all.
SPEAKER_04:No, that in the respect. There is that. I mean and and um it also gives fours a chance. On both sides, I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean But yeah, the yeah, in that aspect too, people maybe will gloss over on that, you know, having your own sexual needs when you're owned and you don't want to be you don't have somebody to take care of those needs, so you just gotta take care of it yourself. Yeah. Does it get mundane after all, you know? Sure, important.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and you know and figuring things out, sure. But yeah. I mean, for really, I mean, uh, I think uh in the end, during certain times, uh for a man, sometimes just uh taking care of yourself can't be enough for a while.
SPEAKER_05:Good Lord, there's been times where it's like, God, I just need to do it myself. I'm just done with the shit. Because sometimes you really just do you just want to take care of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That that need. Well, and so here's the thing is that you know, even that need isn't always based in sexuality. Oh, it's a need, though. No, it is a need. No, 100%. Well, I'm gonna say no, but what I'm gonna say is sometimes ejaculating itself is what matters. You know, just the need for that release is actually what matters. And you want to know the funny thing in the relationships that I've been in.
SPEAKER_05:I have, and this is multiple, in those conversations where like you'll talk about that with a woman, and just be like, oh, I just sleep so much better. Oh, you want me to help you? And they're like, oh no, I know I can never, but then I'll do it. Wake up the next morning, they're like, oh, that's like the best sleep I've ever had. I'm like, I know, right? Like, let me show you some things you didn't know about yourself. And honestly, it I feel like that's a biological thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:When you have that release.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you know the endorphins and stuff it releases. I mean, it absolutely does. And of course, there's a lot of women who just want to deny that altogether. Well, it's not ladylike. Exactly. I think there's other things to it too, but what I want to go with from there with that is. And I lost it. Oh. No, it happened. It happened, guys. It's coming back. Alright. You're gonna give it. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. Um. Let's see if it spawned when I thought about adolescence. Heard any good jokes lately while we're waiting. It spawned when I thought of adolescence. Um, okay, here it is. I found it. So here's the thing to shut up before I lose it again. Um, so here's the thing is that the importance of having your sexuality identified within yourself. And I'm talking when it comes to homosexuality, uh ace, you know, whatever it is, I'm sorry. You need to have that identified for yourself. That it well, I know people who don't. They're not aware of where they're at. You know, do I like women? Do I like men? Do I give a shit about sex? To have that in flux?
SPEAKER_02:I have someone that took a long time to find out that you know, and she was trying to figure out her sexuality. Do I like men? Yeah. And then she also found out she liked women. Okay, does that mean that I'm just a straight up lesbian if I like women? Does it mean that I can't find men attractive or can't be physically with men? Yes. Took her a long time to figure out, like, no, I like both. Yes. And it was it took it as a hard, you know, she said it took me a long time to come to that acceptance within myself that I like both. And she goes, I've had people tell me, oh, no, if you like women, you should just be a straight up lesbian carpet muncher. And she's like, no, that is not what I want.
SPEAKER_04:But then I don't get all of that I want. Yeah. But that's the thing, too, is labels hurt that shit. It's like here I am talking so much about Ryan's ass, and I do love that ass. I don't mind saying it.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:I've grabbed it three times, and I will grab it again, goddammit. We believe you. One more time. So work it. We know. Um but no, seriously, what I'm saying with that is But what I'm saying with that is I feel very confident saying I am a straight man. But as we all know, that usually is on the spectrum for most people. Now I don't know many full-on straight men who are gonna be like, there if there's this, if there's one guy out there, maybe I would I that's what I'm saying. I mean Nobody is a hundred percent. Okay. But I'm saying to have identified what you are comfortable with and not label it, I'm straight, I'm gay, I'm bi, we all lean, or we can lean pretty heavily one way. Oh, for sure. But even if you're in the middle, that's okay. But I don't I don't like the idea of labeling it so strictly that you're not willing to go outside the boundaries of it.
SPEAKER_05:No, I agree with that. I I think where there's been some confusion and some mainstream politics, I I would see sexuality as maybe more fluid or spectrum versus gender. Okay, yep, yep. And I and I'm I'm not trying to break anybody's heart, but if we're talking in general or specific biological aspects, gender is not fluid. Your sexuality is fluid. Right. Um, you know, the there is no joke that that one summer camp where I dressed up like a woman versus, you know, that one time at Band Camp. And we all know what I'm talking about. Right. If I say those two phrases, only one of them holds true. Right. Right? Right. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I do see what you mean.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, and and I pro that's probably not far enough to go with it, because I mean, I guess dressing up can be a sexual experience for certain people. Sure, it could be. But but but say that's your sexuality, not your gender. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yep, yep. And I don't think there's no nor need to go into demonstration. No, no, no. Honestly, I think on my episode with Rachel, she's gonna go to town on some of that shit. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But for that, um I don't even know if this is a men's episode anymore. It's more of a relationship and communication. Well, that's part of it. Yeah, for sure it is.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, that's one thing that we struggle with as, you know, in different approaches. But um I either way, I I I do think it's so important to have that identified and and to be comfortable knowing where you're at and and uh avoid, you know, the labels rather than just I feel like if you label it one thing, you're giving up on the exploration.
SPEAKER_05:Well, then let's say something about knowing where you're at. Yeah. Instead, let's say be open to the idea that you might move. Yeah, there you go. God, you're poetic.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I don't know about poetic. You just put things so clearly. But the Yeah, that's a comment I get a lot on this podcast. What's that? That I have good ideas, but you're you're very good at reframing them to where people can understand. Oh.
SPEAKER_02:And then when I pop in, I'm just here. I'm an interpreter. I just interject here and there.
SPEAKER_04:No, that's perfect. I mean, and and I mean, do you feel like you've gotten to say what you want to say? Yeah. Okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do you feel like you've gotten to say what you want to say?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do we have more on our Well, I can look at the old list here.
SPEAKER_05:You said this one was gonna be a long one with some uh possible possibilities for part one, part two, part three.
SPEAKER_04:I mean I don't know that there's honestly, kind of organically, I think we hit most of it. I really think we did, actually. Yeah, I mean, I don't see anything on here we really didn't.
SPEAKER_02:We covered a lot of it.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I added for some reason, I think my belly was adding a lot of extra capital T's and lowercase t's. I don't know what I meant by that. Um my god, I added it to so much.
SPEAKER_02:That's when you know your belly or not when you was thinking about Ryan? Probably.
SPEAKER_04:That's the Ryan's buttons. You know what? Tap into code for Ryan's butt. Yeah, I I yeah, I we literally covered all of it. About all of it. Okay. I mean, I don't really have anything else. We got three hours into this bitch.
SPEAKER_05:Ryan's ass has gotta go in.
SPEAKER_02:Is it like a Forrest gum deal with you and Ryan if you like go to touch them and you just blow a load? Like when Forrest comes Jenny for Jenny. Ryan. I feel dizzy. I feel sorry I ruined your roommate's bathroom. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:I think it's part of my soul trip dial.
SPEAKER_02:So I ruined your Black Panther party. Black Panther party. He's thinking it's like a get together. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god. Well, um I I like where this went, fellas. I think we covered the whole spectrum.
SPEAKER_05:I guess. You don't want to bring up the bear? Go ahead. Oh, I don't care. No, do it, man. No, I'm being a smart ass, but you know, they choose the bear versus men. That whole thing was just I was being a smart ass. What was it? I don't know what shot meant. If if a woman could choose whether she had to be around a stranger, male, or a bear, she would choose the bear. Have you heard that? No, I haven't. Really? You haven't heard? Oh, that was a huge thing for a minute. The argument was that, you know, men are more dangerous than than the bear. And if you're if you're listening to what they're saying, again, it's indirect. Because obviously, if she hangs out with a bear, she's dead. Right? There's nothing worse than being dead, right? Wouldn't he the poo wouldn't kill anybody?
SPEAKER_04:However, take the honey away from him and No, you have that haunted version. We'll just frick you. Go ahead, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:No, but okay, so again, it goes back to speaking direct and speaking indirect. As a male, we'll be like, I don't understand that. I would never fucking pick the bear over a woman. Okay, so she's saying not that you would kill her, but you would murder her soul, and then she'd have to live with that. So that would be more torturous than dying at the hands of a bear. Instead of saying, hey, this really affects us, it puts it in that negative that men are the toxic piece in that. I'd rather die than have to deal with a man and his sexual need.
SPEAKER_04:Can I turn that a different way? That's what you guys think. Sure. I'd rather live with a woman than a bear.
SPEAKER_05:Right, you're speaking directly.
SPEAKER_04:But you know what that means. So you're no, so women will say they'd rather be killed by a bear than go through the suffering of being with a man. My perspective would be I'd rather go through the suffering of being with a woman than be killed by a bear. Right. Is that what you're saying? Is that in there? I thought I had a revolutionary thing here from that perspective.
SPEAKER_05:No, because you're stating fact. Like you don't we don't want to die. Women are saying, oh, I would give up my life not to have to deal with being raped by a man and Right. Okay. So you're saying that mental anguish is worse than just not being here. So it's like again, toxifying.
SPEAKER_04:Of course, I gotta think of that though, because think about it. The mental anguish we experienced, we went out all the time.
SPEAKER_05:Well, no. Maybe we would pick something. But the counterpart of that is would you rather tell your deepest secret to a woman or a brick wall? I love these analogies. Brick wall probably listen more. And that's that's what you get. It's like, yeah, I would love for me to just be able to get it out. I don't care if you even really process with me or not. I just want to be able to say it and not get harmed.
SPEAKER_04:Ladies. But yet you want we want somebody to hear it too. Ideally. He's like, that would be ideal. But here's the thing is when we do that with other men a lot of times, exactly what he said. Oh, you're fine, move on.
SPEAKER_02:It's like Or even like during the talk toxicity with them two, you know, as a I want you to open up to me. So he'd open up to her and then always use that shit against him when she did when he did open up. Right. Which is he'll close back up. Well, you never talk about your feelings. But yeah, because you use it against, you know. He'll say, you know, you use it against me. So why the fuck do I want to talk to you about this shit? Right. I'm not gonna give you the guns to shoot me with. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:This is this is gonna sound whatever. I don't experience any of this shit. I don't understand it.
SPEAKER_05:You're in a hap- you're in a healthy relationship.
SPEAKER_04:No, I uh no, no, no, no, no. I what I what I'm expressing with that is also that I'm genuinely happy with the situation I'm in and it puts it in perspective. What it also scares me is what the fuck is out there? Oh, it's bad.
SPEAKER_05:I'm serious, and I don't mean that as like a like there's a reason men are choosing peace. Because based dating, I mean, I don't know your experience. If you've chosen peace and you've decided to stay out of dating altogether, awesome. I commend you because that takes discipline. I have been in a relationship, there was some on and off again to it, and some dating in the middle. Oh my god, I'd rather go back to my problems than deal with a whole brand new one. It only gets worse. It it really truly is. The the current climate of the modern woman for a man who is truly looking for connection to be able to express not only his sexuality, but his protective nature. And his penis. His pro well, his provision, his what what is it? Protection, provision. Pussy. And penis. No, what is it, protection penis? Pagion. Why provide, protect Pannies. No, shut the fuck up. See, this is how this is how men talk. We we and that's the thing, too, is if we open up to each other, yeah, you faggot, you fucking fucking but but that's the thing. We we genuinely understand that you heard what I said. And your response to me is a loving application of it sure is.
SPEAKER_04:Well, what's funny is like I always love the the old the old idea that you know there's a fight in high school and it's two men or two kids, boys. You know, they'll beat the shit out of each other and afterwards shake hands, hey, good fight. Right. It's like, but women, it's like they're enemies for the rest of their life. Well that's they're also way meaner. Oh, way I mean they're ruthless. Way meaner. I've heard like my wife tells stories, and she's never been in a fight, but like she would talk about Shelbyville fights, like there would be high school wet girls fighting, and I mean they're brutal. It's men more just kind of wrestling.
SPEAKER_02:That's why I love the women in the UFC. Like they just beat the shit out of each other, and I'd love it. I'd love watching them more than the men do. I mean, I gotta tell you. Well, there's reasons for that too.
SPEAKER_05:Sorry. Whatever. Shut me up on that one. I'm like, ooh, I wonder. Tell me about your mother.
SPEAKER_01:Like, what are your reasons for wanting to do? You don't want to know the shit, Dewey. Shut up. You don't want to know Dewey.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, you know, you just tell me, and I'd be shut up, faggot. Yeah, shut up, faggot. But then we'd crack a beer and you know, share that moment. Um But yeah, you're right. Men the once the fighting's over, we're done. Or you're in jail. Getting handcuffed away with the stuff. Well, then you're probably both in the same cell.
SPEAKER_02:So that was Or you're like Peter Griffin to the chicken and just start fighting again.
SPEAKER_04:Five months later, it's like, hey, son of a bitch, and then you move on and then you meet up again. It is interesting that dynamic. Because I don't think men hold grudges near as bad as women, for the most part. No. Not even No, I think it depends on how a man was scorned.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. But this is the thing, it's like, you know, when I was going through what I went through with the borderline personality. Your second marriage. All right. Ten years later, I see her at a bank drive-thru, and it's like, oh my god, I think that instead of, oh, you fucking bitch. Like I was genuinely like, well, it's like when we thought.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no, it's like when we thought we saw her at the pizza place, Guff and I. Oh, yeah, yeah. And we were texting you, and you desperately wanted to go. And we I wanted to see. We took pictures of this woman, and you and I were like trying to is this her? This is yours? I don't know. We found out she wasn't.
unknown:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know if you ever do that. No. But what's funny is like he was woke up.
SPEAKER_02:No, actually, I had a picture in my phone. I was gonna be like, I found a girl again. But it's funny. Or you can pursue her yourself. Uh no.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. What's funny is we went there and she waited on us. But read the label. Before you engage.
SPEAKER_02:No, I don't want to.
SPEAKER_04:I'm good. No, it was really funny. Of course, you two had your own jokes about stuff. But what was funny about that is you wanted to go there because you're like, I want her to wait on me and have to fucking pour my drinks and shit. I love that. Serve me my pizza. Feed it to me. Um that was just funny. I couldn't. Anyway. Um where's my drink?
SPEAKER_01:Where's my drink? Um how can I eat my pizza without my drink?
SPEAKER_04:Um, but it is funny. I mean, it's but I think that's an approach we would have. It's like, yeah, that's a very passive aggressive thing for sure.
SPEAKER_05:Well, but it's but honestly, if it was a female's ex, she would probably hide. She wouldn't have to be a little bit more.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, she would be like, Oh, he's here, let's go somewhere else.
SPEAKER_05:Right. Yeah, we gotta get out of here.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I would be like, oh fuck yeah. Because I would want to make the person feel awkward as shit. Whatever that meant. If they were just in the restaurant, I'd be like, I'd walk by on purpose.
SPEAKER_02:That's how I would be now. Then I wouldn't, but I'd be so introverted and closed off. Like, no, let's keep walking, yeah, let's keep walking.
SPEAKER_00:No, I'd be like, hey, what's your name? How are you doing? Who's your friend here? Good luck, buddy.
SPEAKER_05:Who's your little buddy?
SPEAKER_02:It's like, oh, do you miss her?
SPEAKER_04:Like too bad. But yeah, I mean that is funny. It's just different approaches. It is. And from our perspective, I look at that approach and say, that's healthier. But I bet a woman or certain people would look at that perspective and be like, that's fucked up. Yeah. But it kind of goes back to that whole thing of like approaches to comedy or sexual desires or any of that. It's like, do approaches have to be wrong or religion when we did that episode. Can we all have a different path of we're not hurting anybody? And if you let yourself get hurt or offended, that's actually your problem.
SPEAKER_05:If if we found a society where we could let that be the norm more than upset, too. Well, know that it was their problem. Yeah. Oh, you're saying that could be normally. I'm saying if we could turn it around to the point where the people who are really upset about the ridiculous stuff were really left to just be like, okay, you're you're touched. Right, you're you're you're special. We're gonna put the rubber helmet over there for you. Yeah. You know, because we don't want you to hurt yourself anymore. It is kind of what you go take care of yourself there. And it's like us having to coddle and live inside a ridiculous fucking matrix.
SPEAKER_04:And and I gotta tell you this, and it's something I've really wrestled with a lot. You've heard some of the AI songs I've written, and you've contributed to some of those. You know I haven't released those for that exact fucking reason. They are awful. But I've played Annie Comes of Age. You've heard that one, right?
SPEAKER_06:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Did you laugh at that? Yeah. It's fucking funny. Oh, yeah. I have not awful Knickers for Sale. Which was posted under Marv, so you just did a reveal. Which is fine. But like, I haven't released that under us because now there's a face to target. But when I released that under Marv, I didn't get a single backlash from a damn person. There's no face to target. Why does that matter? Because that means the the content is objectively funny to people. But if it comes from another face or another identity that can be that can be labeled, it's like, oh, that's not funny anymore. And that's why I haven't released it under us. And I'm getting to the point right now, and I'm hitting I'm like, you know what? I'm contributing to the problem if I don't release it. A little bit. I'm contributing to it because I'm censoring myself at the expense of my funny, what I find funny, and clearly others too. I'm contributing to the whole idea that, oh, this is gonna be too hard for some people. In fact, right now in this moment, and I think I'm gonna lose this fire once things settle. But in this moment, I'm like, I want to get on my phone right now and put Annie and Knickers for sale and fucking sing about penis, that song we did. Diddy did it. And Diddy did it, which is already out there. But that one's safe because that's making fun of somebody who obviously pray not to get it. He's probably not gonna, you know, he's probably not gonna be here in another five years. So that's what I'm saying, though. It's like I just it just hit me. I'm just like, I'm contributing to that fucking stigma right there. But I guarantee I've got the heat right now that if we got off right now, I could post it all. I go home and let things settle, it's gonna be like I don't have the balls to do it anymore.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, I was trying to look for a segue into like, well, hey, maybe you just post it on the struggle bus because we didn't bring up struggle bus. And we really should. Nobody cares about the struggle. Nobody cares about it, but had that one eventually somebody will.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, who was that one scammer or somebody that starts sending out messages?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I don't know what the deal was with that. Well, but either way.
SPEAKER_05:Maybe you just post some, post them there.
SPEAKER_04:But that still isn't that's still not the message. Okay. But right? Is that not still kind of, oh, this is safe to do it, but to put it out there. I'm not saying it's safe.
SPEAKER_05:I'm saying make people go look for it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I know. Let me ask you, let me ask you. Let's say you're on TikTok and this guy's like, hey, if you get on this, I've got this pretty crazy thing. Would you check it out, honestly? Because my thing is that's gonna be too much effort for people. It's too much effort to click on a fucking link.
SPEAKER_05:If you not necessarily, especially if you play a snippet and they're it's a funny thing.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I was thinking. That snippets and like, oh, it's on the struggle bus or something like that.
SPEAKER_04:That's smart, guys.
SPEAKER_02:To get more uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what snippet to do of Annie, though. I think the whole thing.
SPEAKER_05:You know exactly. Oh, it hurts.
SPEAKER_02:It hurts. It hurts so good. God in heaven.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, if nothing else, just put a file out there that says what what was it? Something horse daddy.
SPEAKER_04:I'm a schizophrenic, homophobic, gigging male prostitute. Desperately trying to I even know that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Well, it's a catchy little ditty.
SPEAKER_04:Diddy diddy ditty. Okay, we're in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I think uh yeah, this was good. Good length. Yeah. Now we need to work on the girth. Now we gotta work on girth here. Um okay. Uh thanks for thanks for joining us. Um yeah, we'll drop the struggle bus real quick. Supportive community, there's 13 of us. Um it's it's basically a supportive community where um you know you can share pretty much anything you want, and and uh we're all very comfortable responding and meeting you on that level. Um it's really free of judgment. Uh you can let things out, uh bring the bring the fucked up dark offensive humor, bring the dark stories, bring the struggle. Um that's what it's there for. Um so for those of you who And seek support. And that's actually the big thing is seek support. It's just about being yourself and seeking genuine support from people who will not judge you and who care. But we have fun too. Um What I was gonna say is if anybody wants to join it on any of my TikTok videos or um, I guess if you post this on Spotify or anything, just comment struggle, um, and then I'll DM you the link. Um unfortunately it's hard for me to put embedded links into TikTok videos or anything. I don't think TikTok allows embedded things, which is dumb. But um either way, uh I hope you enjoyed this episode. I I know this is probably gonna be a rough one for some people, but again, try to understand its perspective, and I know a lot of it came off certainly heated and it is a one side. It is absolutely one side, so have the fucking conversation, right? Believe it or not, this is not meant to be confrontational. Um often the way we approach things on here is to be kind of bold so you guys will fucking talk back.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, but we're not out here to hate on anybody or women or men or or anybody. It just talk to us. Um, you know, there's 75 fucking thousand of you, and all you guys will comment is, hey, can you you stick to notes a little better? Um sure. So we did it. There you go. You're welcome. And I think I think we actually did stay pretty well on track. So you got what you wanted. Give us what we want. That's right. This is about us now. It's about us now. We don't care about your needs. Um, anyway, thanks for joining us. I hope you guys got something out of it. I definitely want to thank Guff for joining us. Um, we've been wanting to do this for a very very long time with him. Uh I'm sure there'll be more episodes in the future with him if he if he wants to.
SPEAKER_02:Or if they want me back. You guys want to have a bigger one?
SPEAKER_05:Hey, you've been back by popular demand. Can you keep the notes, axe the two guys, just put guff out there.
SPEAKER_04:Just guff on your camera. Uh hey, that'd be fine. We can we can do a guff segment.
SPEAKER_02:Like, it's cuff. Give me some alcohol first, then I'll do that.
SPEAKER_04:That'd be great. But anyway, um, you got guff here, you got indie pocket, you got defective schizo, effective, nick, tone the three fags with a big black microphone.
SPEAKER_07:Go do it, do it right, guys.
SPEAKER_04:Alright, guys, thanks for joining us. This is Bottom Hui, where we say, don't look to the bottle.
SPEAKER_05:It's a good thing we rehearse this.
SPEAKER_04:Don't look to the bottle. You're showing me a table. Don't look to the bottle. Or the knife. Or the gun.
SPEAKER_03:Look for the souls you become. That was horrible.
SPEAKER_05:You want to just say it all yourself? Look to the Dick Dick Birk Don't look to the bottle.
SPEAKER_04:Look to Ryan's ass. Don't look for sunshine. Nothing will make you happier than Brian's ass. Sunshine of you. Do you remember when I made Ryan's ringtone the prince thing from Kiss? Ding and ding-in-ding-in-ding.
SPEAKER_07:I made that as ringtone.
SPEAKER_04:He hated that. Yeah, I know. That's so funny. Anyway. Alright. Thanks, everybody. Don't look to the bottle of the knife with the gun this second.
SPEAKER_02:Aim for the bushes. Aim for the bushes.
unknown:Bye bye.
SPEAKER_04:And
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