Alcoholism & Addiction Recovery | Jake Miller

Alcohol is the most dangerous drug most of us normalize. Recovery is daily and relentless—but it’s how you get your life back.

A candid mental health episode about what alcoholism really costs, losing your main coping skill to injury, life changes that isolate you, and what it takes to start over when this drug destroys your life.

Episode focus: alcohol as a drug (and why “legal” ≠ safe); the functioning alcoholic myth; pancreatitis as a brutal wake-up call; losing a core coping skill; life changes, social discomfort, and isolation; practical early-recovery steps when your old tools aren’t available.

We cover:

• Alcohol as a drug: normalization vs. danger; real costs to body, mind, and life
• “Functioning” that isn’t: showing up at work while everything else erodes
• Car wrecks & Pancreatitis (3x): deadly wake-up calls and why they forced the change
• Coping-skill loss: how do you survive when your outlet is gone?
• Life changes & isolation: shrinking circles and avoiding relationships
• Early recovery: tiny steps, accountability, and rebuilding routine without the old crutch

Share one song that helped you through your hardest time—and why. Your track (and your story) might help someone else push through a similar moment. Drop it in our Discord "The Struggle Bus" so we can build a lifesaving playlist together. (link below)

Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! (AKA “BTMHOOI!”) is a candid mental health podcast rooted in lived experience: schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that helps make serious mental illness more understandable and human.

Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros (“IndyPocket”), we cover psych wards, psychiatric medication, disability, religious trauma, good therapy, bad therapy, and practical real-world coping — plus the societal and relationship issues that shape mental health every day. The goal isn’t just “fighting stigma.” It’s education, clarity, and honest conversation.

We interview everyone from everyday people to public figures, clinicians, and professionals, because mental health struggles don’t care who you are. If you’re willing to share your story or expertise, we aim to offer a safe, judgment-free space where you can speak openly — and still have some fun while doing it.

New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am EDT.

Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA

All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI

Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:23

Welcome. Here we are again. Bottom hooey, everybody. Beat the mental health out of it. Thank you for joining us. This is the Defective Schedule Effective. To gay. To gay. To gay. You know we love that on here. Glad to get gay with our guest today. This is my dear old friend Jake Miller. Hey, there he is. Buddy, you haven't changed a bit. Really? You look the same. Your hair is shorter. Yeah. And you're less greedy. You're less, you're less. All right. I haven't told many people what we did back then, but uh, they're about to find out. On the podcast? Well, yeah. We bear all on here, even our bare balls and our in our asses.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05

And then anyway, that was not remotely clever. I really appreciate it. Good to have you. Never been on a podcast before. Um, you know, it's like uh it's really sweeping the nation. Everybody and their cousins got a podcast nowadays, and I thought about it, and I was just like, you know, what what the heck would I talk about that anybody would want to hear about? But this is not that. You seem to have a really good, you know, starting point, like a platform, because you know, you have a topic that you always have to, you know, fall back on. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Everybody, because if you yourself don't have mental health issues, you definitely know someone that does. Exactly. That's exactly what we're going for here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

Yeah. It makes sense that you have as many listeners as you do. Y'all are crazy like us, and you want to hear more crazy. So that's what we're here for. But uh weird, we're here to show the crazy. Good to see you again, bro. Uh, I imagine we kind of reconnected a lot of the same reason that uh Guff and I reconnected. You know, we kind of connected over pain and suffering. Uh honestly, that is kind of what what can often bring people together. Uh, you and I definitely uh back in the middle school days uh were very close. Can't exactly put my little finger touching tips here on what happened uh to kind of lose contact. You know, sometimes things just organically fall apart. Wasn't anything malicious on either end?

SPEAKER_01: 2:30

No, nothing like that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:32

But you know, you and I were in a band together and both very passionate about our instruments. Definitely you were one of the greatest guitar players I've worked with then or since. So yeah, I don't really know what happened.

SPEAKER_01: 2:43

Yeah, well, I think it pretty much how I remember it was I had to move away, and I moved like two hours away, and then I talked to you I think one time when I was 20, and then I didn't hear from you again after that. Then I tried to find you on Facebook, and then yeah, I just stopped going up to Indianapolis so much, and then didn't hear from you until recently. And I didn't have a Facebook for a long time, so I don't think there would have been a way for you to get a hold of me, anyways. Once I got back on, you found me pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00: 3:18

But you you and I d did some really funny shit back in the I've got certain stories I want to tell, but you said you had a couple. So I thought we'd start off, gotta share into some bullshit stories we did, and we'll kind of get into whether you're comfortable with sharing kind of the trajectory until now, and then we can, you know. But what what are some uh funny stories you remember? And then I'll I'll see if I do or if I can share some.

SPEAKER_01: 3:42

Well, I'll just start at day one. So I started going to you's uh school for some reason. I don't know why my mom made me go there, but you know, it's good I did and met you guys. So I went there and I met Zeb and Guffy, and they were already friends with you. So and I met them because I decided to do football, not because I liked it, just because I just wanted to meet people at a new school. Yeah, just turned 13 and yeah, went to middle school with you guys for the rest of middle school, and we were in band together, and we used to drive our band instructor nuts, and everybody wanted to play snare.

SPEAKER_00: 4:22

We have seven snares and like a 30 person.

SPEAKER_01: 4:26

Yeah, and then I started learning guitar around that time because my parents got rid of my drum set, so I had to find something else to do. So I started playing guitar. And it's funny that you thought I was good back then, because like, God dang, I always thought like you were not, or I was not as good at guitar as you were drums. So it's like, I wish I could play with you now and like have the knowledge I have now, you know, and play with you. Because back then, I mean I was alright for like a 16-year-old, but like wasn't like that good. But now I can actually play. I I'm actually confident in my playing. It's not because of my injury, but I was getting able to gain like 90% back. So but it also affected my style and made it kind of unique. So it's not all.

SPEAKER_00: 5:08

No, I mean sometimes happy, happy little accidents is Bob Ross.

SPEAKER_01: 5:11

Yeah, it kind of got me to slow down a little bit and be more mindful and think about phrasing a little more. Yeah. Like kind of like you know, on Black Sabbath, Tony Iomie got his fingers cut off and he had to wear those like leather caps, and it kind of like affected how you play. So sometimes injuries can actually recover, but for a long time I wasn't able to like open my hand, so I had to have a slide on my finger to play. So I got really good at slide guitar, and but then once my hand healed up, I just never played slide again. But, anyways, yeah, I wish I could go back and play with you back then. Like, we could have had a really good band. I just didn't know what to do. I had no idea how to like do anything. I mean, I can play, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:55

I mean, I was we were all still figuring it out. Uh it's not too late, bro. I mean, I know you live where you live, and you know, we're about two, three hours away, but the internet's a beautiful thing, so it's not too late to get on that. I mean, the the technology today, it's so freaking easy to do that. Uh so yeah, you know I'm up for it. We've talked about it, so we should get fucking rolling on that. Absolutely. But yeah, I mean, you gotta share your funny stories.

SPEAKER_01: 6:20

Like you see, you had a couple of things. Yeah, my funny stories. Here's what this isn't so much of a story as it was a state of mind I was in, but I was always like mindful and aware of the fact that you could kill me with your bare hands. Because you used to be like in wrestling in all lean muscle, and you were so freaking strong, you could bench so much, and you were like telling us one day about how you had this special ability, like the Hulk, like where if you got mad enough, like you couldn't feel pain and you basically became unstoppable. So, like whenever we'd be like hanging out and like getting rowdy or like getting riled up and start like wrestling or whatever, I'd always have that in the back of my mind, like Nick could kill me.

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

Cause you could like do takedowns and like sufflex me and like well, I uh I distinctly remember uh um saying that a lot. I mean, I was a I was a tough kid and I was strong and I was very pain resistant, still am, you know, especially with some of the things I was doing to myself around that time. I didn't want people to fuck with me. Um I really didn't. I mean, you know, you and I would tumble quite a bit, and you know, at the time I I was pretty effective, you know, I was at the top of my game as far as physical health and wrestling and all that, you're right. But often I did lean into that pretty heavy because I didn't want really people to fuck with me. And I a lot of it was because I was afraid of what I would do to somebody. It was also that whole macho, I gotta be the alpha bullshit physically. Yeah, that's a whole thing, right? Of men. Yeah. But uh a lot of it was I uh I was afraid of what if I was triggered anger-wise, what I would do to somebody was not only to protect myself, but others. Yes, I I did used to very much use the whole thing as well.

SPEAKER_01: 7:59

I thought that was hilarious. I wasn't really like afraid of you, I knew you wouldn't really do it. I just thought it was funny.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

No, you you and oddly enough, you and Ryan had that approach back then too. Uh because Ryan was the same way, but like he also would fuck with me about that too, and he still does, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 8:14

Yeah, uh you catch him though, he can he can run up a wall and do a backflip.

SPEAKER_00: 8:19

Do you remember like when he'd run against a wall and act like he smacked his fucking head? Do you remember that? Yeah, he fooled me with that so many times. Yeah, I that is a very distinct, fond memory of him.

SPEAKER_01: 8:34

You guys are the only some of the only people like I knew at that age, so like I can remember a lot from that time period just because of my friends.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a lot, it's a I mean, when you're that young, you don't have anything else. You know, you don't know shit about the world, you don't know shit about sexuality, you're still trying to discover that and all that. So it's like you don't have a fucking clue other than to be dumbasses with your friends. That's the beauty of that age, you know. Um what can you do? But the other story I have to share, and I don't know if I've ever shared it on here, so this is an embarrassing one. We were sitting in my living room. You we were all into jackass pretty heavily, if you remember, in the movies. Not proud of this one. It's one of the most jackass-free things I've ever done. But we watched Jackass, one of the episodes.

SPEAKER_01: 9:18

Do you know where I'm going with this yet? No, but I'm glad you're bringing this up because I was gonna bring up something similar. But okay, good.

SPEAKER_00: 9:24

Okay, but this one is we were all sitting around in the living room in our underwear. Uh-huh. And if you remember, I had, I believe I had Taz back then. Do you remember him? He would have been my dog, the Raw Weather Shepherd. He had one of those massive dog bones, and we all sat in a circle in our underwear and our hands behind our back, and we were trying to drill each other in the balls with Jackass is a bad influence on people.

SPEAKER_01: 9:51

You totally. I was thinking about talking about something like that on the podcast because I was thinking like about starting a podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 9:58

I told you it's no holds barred, man.

SPEAKER_01: 10:00

I know. I was thinking about like how like when you're a little kid, you go see a movie, and then when you get out of the movie, you like want to go play it and like play pretend.

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

And I was like, Jackass was Jackass's reality fucking TV.

SPEAKER_01: 10:14

If I saw something on TV that I thought was gnarly, I was like, I want to be like that, and that's a horrible thing to be like.

SPEAKER_00: 10:21

Oh shit. The other story I have to tell, which I I told other people, but there's another good one. We were driving on the Fairland back roads. Adam was driving. This one was legit dangerous. It was pitch blackout. Adam decides to turn his headlights off and just speed down the road as fast as he can. And he started going off the road a little bit, and then he clicked his lights back on. You have you blocked this shit?

SPEAKER_01: 10:48

Probably. Trauma related. I I kind of remember it, and I had a few other friends do that too, and I'm so glad I didn't die. I kind of died so many times doing so. I know.

SPEAKER_00: 10:58

Just like, well, that's his boys, man. I think there's a boy thing.

SPEAKER_01: 11:02

You're lucky if you make it to this age.

SPEAKER_00: 11:04

I gotta say, like, as far as art history together playing music, I remember connecting so much through that. And I I mean, I definitely think music to me, to me, very personal, is the most powerful art form. I think everybody it's a safe art form to express so many things through. Like how many of us find validation in corn and slipknot and stuff like that? It's a catharsis, but it is, you know, something we can all experience together, and it's safe to do it in that way. You know, not many people are willing to come out and talk about how they want to rip somebody's throat out. It's safe to do that in music, even though I think those feelings are often valid in all of us, you know, and that's kind of exploring your shadow self and all that stuff. I was just kind of curious, you know, that's kind of our background, some dumbass stories and kind of our perspective back then. But what happened to you when you left? I know you've had a lot of things happen since then. Do you mind getting into some of that? Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

I'm not really good at sharing emotions or feelings, so it's probably gonna come off like really like stoic. Well, yeah, that, but just like really fact-based. Like just probably like a timeline of events with no emotion attached to it, just like this is what happened.

SPEAKER_00: 12:14

But I'll do my fact is the fact is you've gone through the shit and the emotions at this point. Now it is kind of just a story. Just kind of the facts, you know. So anyway, go ahead, my friend.

SPEAKER_01: 12:24

And I'm not crying, there is some type of dust in the air that I got in my eyes.

SPEAKER_00: 12:28

That's what everybody says.

SPEAKER_01: 12:33

I'm the first person to eat blueberries on your podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 12:36

You're doing so so sensually. I might have to pause for a moment.

SPEAKER_01: 12:40

And I pull out an ostrich feather, start tickling myself with it. I'm so stupid.

SPEAKER_00: 12:46

I saw you changing I saw you changing your shirt before the episode. I was like, oh my god. You did? What did you do? Is that what I'm you look good. I guess you look better than me with your shirt off. That's all I could say.

SPEAKER_01: 12:58

Well, okay, so let's let's break it down to the last point of contact. The last time we made first last contact. It would have been I came to your house. I was about to leave. I'm moving. Man, I can't remember if it was when I was going to Virginia or when I came back from Virginia and then going to southern Indiana. Not sure. But I stopped by your house and I left, and then I didn't talk to you for like a few months. It was August of 2011 and to an incubus concert, and it really, really sucked, and it was really depressing. I don't know. We just talked to each other for a bit, and I was kind of out of it and said some weird shit and then said goodnight, and that was it. And I didn't talk to you for years, but I do distinctly remember trying to get in contact with you to make a band. Basically, music is how I've made most of my friends throughout my life because I'm always trying to make a band with someone. Yeah, dude, it was like years. And I I was asking around about you to people, and yeah, never really figured anything out. I was so shocked to see you, and I was like so happy. So you had a kid and you're drumming it up, doing more than me. I'm just a work robot. If anybody is a robot, it's mean.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Yeah, I know you're working insane hours and it's driving, it's it's hurting your mental health for sure. Um, and I do want to get into some of that if you want to, but you know, I was doing the same, and that's exactly what made me implode, like fully. You know, I I really was working those hours for multiple months, and I fully imploded because of that. It's complicated, but I I do know that, you know, you uh you've had your own mental struggles. I have to say that one thing I noticed that really shocked me when I reconnected with you is, you know, back in middle school when I knew you, you know, you're an incredibly social guy, and everybody loved you. You were loved by everybody. And then, you know, when I lost contact with you and actually made contact with you again, it was really shocking to me to find out you hadn't maintained any of those connections and you're not really near as social as I remember you being. Um, and if it's I wanted to bring that up if that's okay, because I wanted to kind of, I guess, maybe segue that into kind of your trajectory into kind of what what happened to you during that period. Um, because something probably had to kind of change in you in your life that that made that characteristic change. Because I can tell you, I never lost that social, you know, need or that social connection I had with people. And so I just wonder kind of what transpired in your life to make that change in you, if you even know. You know, maybe it just naturally happened. But do you mind sharing on that?

SPEAKER_01: 15:41

Yeah. Some people I lost contact with because their like lifestyle and their habits were not something I wanted to be around. So that covers some people. Another reason why is uh just like a lot of those friends in Indy, they you know, we weren't playing music together anymore, so I didn't really have a reason to go up to Indy because it would just be like drive two hours to go get drunk with them. So it was just kind of like not worth my gas or my time to go do, and then I got then really a big thing that affected me that stopped it was my friend Nate dying. He died in a car accident. He was my neighbor. He went to school. I know I remember Nate. I do remember Nate. Yeah, you met him a few times. Yeah, what he died. I didn't know that, buddy. Yeah, yeah, it was really it really affected me for it. Still is affecting me. That that was uh damn, eight years ago now. And I don't know. It made me like just kind of like withdraw in. I was like working at Amazon a lot, and then I met this girl there and I dated her for five years, and I was kind of like wrapped up with like her family and her stuff, and then I was just, you know, again working a lot, and like I just didn't have a reason to like drive up to Indy very much, and then I just didn't do Facebook, I didn't like talk to people, and people didn't really call me that much. But I don't know, I developed this weird like phobia of answering the phone, and I think it's because I was so overwhelmed with all these like one event after another of like really heavy, gnarly shit. I just had to like make my world smaller and able to handle everything because I couldn't handle myself, my own emotions, I couldn't handle just my work or anything happening with my family. I had to just like pick and choose a few things to focus on in order to survive and not like lose my fucking mind. And then after that, I'm like a year and a half or two years into dating that girl. Uh, we got in a really bad car accident, and then I got really afraid of driving anywhere. So I just stayed home and I had to go to like CBT therapy for a little bit to get me driving again. It didn't really work. And eventually I just like we we had to go make money and we had to go get food. So I just started driving and I would have panic attacks while driving. So I just became a home body, you know. And somewhere along the line, I just like I don't know what because like you're talking about how you remember me, and I forget being like that. Like at some point, I just like lost a bunch of confidence. Really? Whatever reason, I don't know why. Just like kind of like your own worst enemy kind of thing, just not liking yourself, even though everybody's telling you, like, hey, you're a great friend, you're a great brother, you're good looking, you're good at this, you're smart, all these compliments and stuff. And then in my head, I'm just like the exact opposite, like bringing myself down. I have no idea how that started or why. It's a complete mystery, but I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's thank you for sharing. That's actually pretty powerful stuff, honestly. I mean, yeah, clearly you had a decent amount of fucking trauma happen to you. Um, and I didn't know about most of that. Um, and I'm sorry about Nate, man. I really am. I didn't know about that one.

SPEAKER_01: 18:40

Yeah, I didn't mean to lose touch with anybody. It wasn't like everything. Then I blinked, and everybody's like married and has kids, and it's just like, well, it's too late to talk to them now, they're not gonna have any fucking time. If I mean not having kids don't have time, I can't imagine, you know, those people ever having time to, you know, text me, have like a even a text conversation. I mean, I've never had to deal with so much of as a mental disability other than you know, like ADHD and like addiction issues. Well, that one's like self-inflicted, so it's not like I was born with that, but you know, like ADHD, I've had to mask, you know, and do and find ways to work around stuff. But I have experienced being physically disabled for a period of time, being in wheelchair bound and stuff, but and that that's part of the reason.

SPEAKER_00: 19:23

I mean, obviously, I I want to get anybody who's been acquainted with me or not to get on here with me and talk about this for this exact reason. Because this shit is just not that abnormal, or honestly, it's not that unknown. People know about this, they still want to fucking talk about it or don't want to admit it, you know. Right. Um, that's exactly what I'm trying to do here is get people to fucking talk about it and be comfortable with who they are. You gotta get comfortable with how you sit.

SPEAKER_01: 19:52

Titties.

SPEAKER_00: 19:53

Titties.

SPEAKER_01: 19:54

Um, but anyways, man, you made me feel pretty comfortable though. Uh, because I was like really nervous. Like, I wasn't until all day until right before we started. And then we hit start, and I was like, oh shit. I was like drawing a blank, but now I feel comfortable. Now I'm in the groove. For whatever reason, I have a hard time with eye contact. I'm not afraid of people, I just don't like it because I can like feel their emotions when I don't want to, and it like kind of makes me uncomfortable. So, like, I have a hard time with eye contact, and I've had to work on that. A lot to, you know, maintain eye contact. But I've learned that when I do it, I tend to like get my way more often or convince people more often. So I've like learned to kind of weaponize it at my job. So like if I can just bear through the discomfort of the eye contact, people just like believe what I say. And I'm not lying. It's just it is you're lying, but the eye contact helps people know that you're definitely not lying. Well, people will look you right in the eyes and lie to you, though. I'm not one of those people, but I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:53

No, I mean, uh, the what is the vessel through the soul is through the eyes. I think there's something to that. And yeah, I I gotta say, you know, you mentioned the masking thing and mentioned a lot on here about my struggles with being passively suicidal. And I have to say, since my son was born, you know, that obviously is a big, the biggest deterrent I've ever had, him and my wife, Katie. So, you know, I can kind of look at them or or think of them, and it's like, okay, regardless of any pain I'm going through, that that matters more than anything. And one thing that's big with people who are passively suicidal, and it even goes into people, you know, with uh alcoholism and uh drug use. And I imagine you might know about some of this, is the goal is to promise today I won't do it. You can't promise in a week you won't. You can't promise in 10 years you won't. Unless you want to die. You have to promise.

unknown: 21:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 21:42

That's what I tell myself. I don't know with your experience. I know you've had some alcohol struggles in the past. So that is something you have overcome. And I don't know if that's an approach you have to that. Because I know that's a big theory in AA or a big approach is that hey, promise today you won't do it. Tomorrow's the future, you can't undo what you did in the past. Promise today it's not gonna happen. So I would love to know if that's something, whether it's to drinking, whether it's to even your own life. I don't know if that's something you've struggled with is the suicidal tendencies or ideations.

SPEAKER_01: 22:12

I did, but some of the health problems I've had have made me go the other way because dying can hurt. And when you're actually like dying in a really horrible way, it's like you start thinking, well, no, actually I want to live. I got to the point where I realized that, and and what the doctor also told me this, like said, like you literally drink anything, like even like kombucha, like, do not drink even any type of alcohol. He's like, you will just immediately be right back here. And he's like, and you will die. He's like, if you drink again, you will die. So luckily, I am not suicidal, so I'm not gonna drink because dude, I can't describe the pain. Like it having pancreatitis for like 48 hours straight at level 10 pain in the medication they give you. They don't give you enough. They just like tease you and they leave you there. You can't eat, you can't drink, you can't get comfortable. It's like the worst pain in your life. Like, I've broken the left side of my body, my arm, my ribs, my legs, hit my head, all of that. I would rather have that again than go through pancreatitis. And I've done it three times. So that just goes to show how strong the compulsion to drink once you're hooked on that chemical. Like, you know you're gonna go to the fucking hospital. It's like you it's like you might as well be one of those people on my strange addiction, like eating mothballs or concrete or something. Like, it's that stupid. It's like you get you're laying there thinking, like, I am so stupid. Do I really want to die? I must want to die. Because I wouldn't be doing this if I wanted to live because I'm like actually dying. Yeah, like I would do it and quit for a long time, then do it really hard and quit, and then like it finally just got to the point where I walk, I see alcohol or see a sign, I'm just like, fuck that. My brain associates the pain with that concept so hard that it like protects me. Like my own body, like just finally said, That's enough, we're done. And no one's ever really gonna quit until they're you're just at your like breaking point, you're done. Do whatever you gotta do. So they like detox me in the hospital and they slowly like brought me down from because you can actually die if you um you know quit too soon. If you go cold turkey, you can die. Many, many people have actually died from that. So they gave me medicine, so I don't have seizures, and then I detoxed myself the rest of the way at home and just didn't drink. I just couldn't believe I was like for years going to work every day hung over, and it was just awful. I would just get off work and drink a ton and do it again the next day, and it just fucked my body up so bad. And as soon as I stop, I look like better. Like my skin's better, I feel better, I get sleep. I just the way I feel now is so much better to how I used to. It's like I can't believe I lived like that. And like I said, I'm still working on things. I'm trying to figure out exactly what I'm trying to like suppress or like numb or get rid of by doing shit like that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

I was gonna ask you, like, do you know why did you start leaning into drinking?

SPEAKER_01: 25:02

I must have some deep dark hole or something that I'm trying to cover up because like I got really fucking crazy with that. I actually drank one time so much to a point that I had open eye visual hallucinations, like a schizophrenic. You really? Yeah, and auditory too. What was that like for you? I couldn't believe it was happening. It was so real. Like, I was like, what were you saying?

SPEAKER_00: 25:24

What were you seeing and hearing?

SPEAKER_01: 25:25

I was watching Conan the Barbarian, and I like in real life, or you thought you were seeing Conan Barbarian. No, I was on TV. I was watching Conan and I was laying in bed. I was partying, I was like cooking food, and I over the course of the day I had drank like an entire, you know, like fifth of vodka or whatever. I don't know why alcoholics always go to vodka. I guess it's just easy to drink and stuff. So I don't know how it happened. I didn't take any drugs or anything like that. I just drank all day. And then at night I think I drank more, and I'm watching Conan and I'm having a good time, and I'm all like, you know, dizzy and stuff, but I don't feel sick or anything. I feel fine mostly. And I hear my door open, and in walks like the Jim Henson style Ninja Turtle, Michelangelo, himself, Michelangelo, walks into my room and I'm watching him walk in front of the TV. It blocks the light from the TV. He goes through the door or opens the door, walks out into the hallway, and at the time there was an opening in the wall. There was like a hole in the wall, so the basement was really echoey. And I heard the footsteps all the way to the bathroom. And then I you could hear in the bathroom from that from my bedroom because it was super echoey, even though it was far away. I heard him take a piss. So I'm sitting there in my bed with the blankets like this, listening to Michelangelo the Ninja Turtle, take a piss in my bathroom. And I'm thinking, is this a person in a suit? Is this an alien abduction? Is this real? Am I did someone give me drugs? Like, am I schizophrenic? I'm running all this through my mind, and I grab my knife that I always have by my bed, and I just get under the covers and I hold the knife, and I'm just sitting there thinking, like, planning on going for the door. I grabbed my cat and I was just like thinking. I'm thinking he's either gonna go upstairs into the other people's house, or he's gonna come back the way he came, because that's the only way out. So I waited and I waited, and an hour went by, and this ninja turtle never came out of my bathroom. So I had to go in there and confront him. I got like a hatchet and a knife of like a crazy person. And I flip on the lights and I go in there. There's nobody in there.

SPEAKER_00: 27:32

And I'm so you when you went back in there, you didn't even hallucinate him anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 27:36

No, it was done. Whatever that little flash or whatever that was, it was done at that point. And I just sat there, I'm like, okay, something's wrong here with my brain. And I went to sleep and woke up and told my brother about it. And I told a lot of people about it. I couldn't believe it happened. It was crazy. But then I started to realize, like, man, that's not good. You can't just drink all day.

SPEAKER_00: 27:57

You can't just hallucinate Michael Angelo pissing in your bathroom.

SPEAKER_01: 28:00

What the fuck? But it was funny because then the next night that prompted me to watch Ninja Turtles 3 where they go back in time to Japan.

SPEAKER_00: 28:07

Yes, that's you know what I'm talking about. I mean, what is yes? I love those marathons. What does one do when they hallucinate Michael Angelo? The next day they watch a teenager Ninja Turtles marathon. Yeah, I watched all three of them. I'm glad it was Michelangelo. Like, what if Raphael came in? He'd have been stabbing your ass. Rafael is my favorite. Raph's my favorite, but he's the main one. He's like aggressive. He's like Raph would not be. Yeah, I'd always think of you as Mikey. Who would I be? Donnie.

SPEAKER_01: 28:41

But I'd like to be Raf someday. Maybe I can when I grow up, I can be Raph. But yeah, drinking's horrible. It can happen to anybody. And I think you said on one of the episodes that like it's the most dangerous drug of all and it's everywhere, and it's just horrible. It makes you mean. Some people like it didn't make me mean, but it made me run my mouth and be more prone to argue and say things I regret, you know. It's just stupid stuff. It makes you forget things, it makes you dangerous. Like you fall down, you get hurt. It hurts your body physically, it kills you spirit spiritually.

SPEAKER_00: 29:13

I really would argue, and I'm not somebody who drinks. I've never been a drinker. I don't like it. It doesn't taste good to me. That's awful. But I would argue a lot of people who drink like that are probably self-medicating for something. I don't think it's for a love of the drink. Yeah, I don't know many people who just drink for, you know, hey, I love alcohol to this level. I can't stop. It's not like a box of donuts. It doesn't seem to be, but I do know some functioning alcoholics. And I gotta say, when they get to that point where they get pretty drunk, there is a filter that comes off. But it's not always just this arrogant, insensitive, racist, you know, sexist asshole that comes out. It does remove a filter of actual thoughts that are in there that are actually not necessarily off base. They're very personal. It does, and this is my experience, you know, but I know one in particular, this person uh who is a functioning alcoholic, so gets drunk damn near nightly. When they get there, the filter of like personal struggle comes comes down, and he reveals things that actually are troubling him, and they come out actually in a very kind of desperate the mask comes down, the ability to fight off those actual genuine struggles and feelings comes down. I've learned more about this guy's struggles and pain when he gets drunk, and I do think they're legitimate because I know the difference between when he's getting heartfelt and his pain's coming out versus he's being racist, and you know that. So there is, I wonder, is it even a comfort to to lower that mass to be able to not have the awareness to share these things? I don't know. This is me totally just spitballing here.

SPEAKER_01: 30:54

Some people know how to measure it and stuff, and like, but it catches up with you. Like you can he doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:00

I mean, he just buys cases and drinks it. I mean, was it was he drinking beer? Yingling, usually.

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

Yeah, ying. Yeah, there's like beer alcoholics and they spread it out, so they typically can be more functional because it's not hitting them all at once because they have to drink the whole thing, you know. That's a little different, and that can kind of trick you. I've known beer alcoholics. There's lots of different types of alcoholics, you know. There's like binge ones, there's functional ones like me. There's people who do a little every day, maybe every weekend or something. And then there's people who like I used to measure it out. Like I knew I had it all planned out, like exactly how much I needed to get where I was going, and exactly where the line was where I could step over and either like hallucinate or like or just feel good, I guess. Why be hung over? So some days I had it so measured where I knew how much I could drink without being hung over, and I would do that for days on end. And then other days I would have like a really bad day and just go crazy and just drink a shit ton. So I was like both sometimes. Sometimes I was like binging, sometimes I was like measured, and then there's some people that they don't even realize they're an alcoholic. And I know another guy who does the same thing as my cousin where they're like collectors of bottles and they look for rare, expensive bottles of whiskey, and every time you go to their house, you see it going down, down, down. It's like they're drinking it, but their parents come over and people see it and they're hiding it in plain sight. Like, who buys like 20 bottles of whiskey? Like, that's only political does that, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 32:24

Do you think leaving it out and playing sight is for a call for help?

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

It could be, or I it's either a call for help, or maybe they want someone to care, or maybe they don't even know. Well, you're in the mistake.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

I don't think so. I doubt it. I doubt it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:41

Maybe they really do like collecting it because people collect like bottle caps and stuff. So I don't know. Because I started like that. Because I used to only buy the experience.

SPEAKER_00: 32:50

You know the signs. You know the signs.

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

I know the signs, man, but it's kind of you don't want to like start, you know You don't want to label people.

SPEAKER_00: 32:56

I get it, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 32:57

Yeah, you know what I mean? Because I took this class about psychopaths at college. It was like just for an elective, it was like introduction to psychopathy, and when I got done with the class, I started like looking at people I know and trying to guess who's a psychopath and stuff. And I'm trying not to do the same thing with alcoholics, I'm not trying to like tell everyone they're an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_00: 33:16

I know I am, but that's a good point. You also are a bit of a lack of a better word, expert in this. You know, you you are someone who has absolutely been there and seen it and have all the repercussions of somebody. So I think you would be somebody who is capable of, you know, probably pointing that out. I mean, one thing I I do hate on social media, and it's a big thing I have a problem with, is a lot of these people trying to self-diagnose. But I can't fucking stand that. You know, see a professional. We the layman, the normal person can feel one way and it's absolutely something different. Doesn't mean it's an illegitimate problem. That's the thing I try to get through is like if you're struggling, it is a legitimate problem, but it doesn't mean you're this. It might be something completely different. And if you try to treat it like, oh, it's this, and you treat that, you might make it worse, or you're not gonna get any help at all. Therapy is hard. Therapy is work. Often it can be just miserable, but again, you have to go through pain to get to growth, period. Real therapy, you're gonna be like, why do I feel this way? What was the trauma that caused it? What was the genesis of this horrific feeling I'm having? Yeah, that's where you find the growth. When you revel in the level of comfort with it, fuck off with that. You're not gonna get anywhere with that. You're not gonna grow, you're gonna still be either struggling that way or you're gonna turn into a fucking asshole because of it.

SPEAKER_01: 34:33

I wanna say, let's try and backtrack. We lost contact, and then all those years in between. What were you doing? Were you just like drumming and trying to go to work? Like what kind of work were you doing?

SPEAKER_00: 34:44

Well, uh very much in a nutshell. Uh, I got my GEV in 2010. So got a year earlier than we would have graduated. Went to college pretty much right out the gate, IUPY, first time. Went two years with going, kind of didn't really know exactly what direction, but I chose accounting, essentially in the end. But due to I didn't tell the school what I had, so I didn't I didn't elect to get the benefits of someone who was disabled because I didn't want to admit it and I wanted to do it myself. If I'd gone ahead and gotten the help and the disab disability assistance, I probably could have got my degree. Ended up going to school again. Uh that time I chose to go for music, tech, and recording. I had uh auditioned for the Jacob School of Music, which it switches between the number one and number two music school in the country. Got into the Jacobs School. Being with the mental state I had and knowing that I'd have to live remotely and the money was outrageous to go there. And ultimately, you know, through people I knew and especially Tony, I never wanted to pursue drumming in the way that would have benefited from going to a school like that. I'm actually a big person who says, don't ever get a music degree. If you want to minor in it, that's fine. You do not need a degree. Uh, I'm I don't know how many of these famous musicians, even virtuosic level players, have degrees. So a lot of it is just doing the work. But I uh, you know, kind of talking to people, you know, I never wanted to be a touring drummer, no desire to do that. All I really want to do is play in local jazz bands. That's all I cared about. Wanted to play in local jazz fusion bands. I didn't want to tour at all. Um, so anyway, I ended up uh deciding to go to IEPY for music tech and recording. I did that for two years. Was a really dumb idea, and I will share why. And it's because I was looking for a way to make music a career that was legitimate. So being a producer, things like that, and my brother got a music tech and recording degree at U of I, and now is an incredibly successful person. Nothing to do with music tech, but it did open a lot of gates for him. So that was also a big influence why I went that route. Uh but the reason it was really dumb of me to pursue that is because what is one of the big things you have to do in music tech and recording? Listen and edit and all that shit with audio. What do I have? Auditory hallucinations. I am fizz, I am incapable of mixing, and it's not possible for me. I just it's not. I will hear things completely differently than anyone else because I'm constantly barraged with sound that is not there. So it corrupts frequencies, it corrupts volume levels. Um, you know, it's never consistent. So it's not something I was capable of doing.

SPEAKER_01: 37:07

Does it mess with your rhythm?

SPEAKER_00: 37:09

No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01: 37:11

I can't really describe why it doesn't affect rhythm. It's like really basic info. Like a beat is like really I could see that.

SPEAKER_00: 37:18

A beat is and I God, I've talked about this. A beat No, it's like, yeah. I mean, your heart is a rhythm. Everything in life has a rhythm. So that is like the difference.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

I feel like the difference between, you know, like a beat and a melody is the same difference between like a math class and a creative writing class.

SPEAKER_00: 37:35

Absolutely. Totally agree with that. A beat's universal to me. It is, you know, math is the universal language. So a beat to me is is a foundational universal thing. We all know what that is. It's not as you exactly, exactly. Um, of course, you want to get into drumming, there's time manipulations and polyrhythms, but we're not gonna nerd in about that. Um, either way, went to two years for that, obviously. Imploded due to the stress of that, because again, I didn't elect to get the help as a disabled person, so failed that again because of me. Not willing to admit I needed help with that. And the only thing that did come really good of that is do you know Rob Dixon by chance? He runs the Indiana Jazz Fest, he owns the Mousetrap Club or the Outlaw. I was in the Mousetrap, and I've been to Jazz Fest, so maybe I've seen him. Like he is he is the Indiana Jazz guy. Um, you know, he's played with pretty, I don't remember who all famous musicians he's played with, but kind of all of them. So I actually was lucky enough he was the professor of music of the jazz band at IDPY, which was incredibly fortunate because he took me under his wing and I ended up gigging with him a lot. It takes a lot of energy. I mean, I definitely um with a lot of things that happened, I took a pretty long hiatus from drumming. And I gotta tell you, it was really fucking hard. And it's not because I missed it, it's because I fucking need it. Right. Um, as I'm as I've mentioned many times on this show, drumming is literally what saved my life, and it still is my by far my best coping skill. So, you know, when I went without it because I was so depressed or so wrecked mentally, actually it was worse. So um, you know, I've kind of gotten on guff about that too, because you know, he dropped, he was playing bass pretty religiously for a long time. And due to things that happened um in his life, you know, he ended up dropping it and he hasn't gotten really back on top of it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:19

So I definitely went through a phase where I was like, what's the point? I don't have anybody to play with. And then when I got it, my ability to play taken away from me, you know, it's like the realized how much you needed it, right? Yeah. And I was just like, what's the point? I don't have a band, I can't get anybody to play. Like, I don't know anybody around here. I just work all the time. You know, it's so hard to coordinate like off days to actually have a legitimate band, but I always like maintained my skills in case, you know, I get in a position where I can play with people. So right now I'm just trying to make it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:51

Well, what's your what's your reasoning for playing? Like what why do you play? It just is it for is it for you? Is it to create something as a as a unit with your whoever you're with? Why do you play?

SPEAKER_01: 40:01

It's just like a part of who I am at this point. It's just something I know how to do, and it's just like natural to me.

SPEAKER_00: 40:08

And it's like it's probably what cathartic and therapeutic and all that, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, the reason what I'm segueing into is obviously you see my social media drumming. What am I doing? I'm literally just jamming the covers. That's it. I don't have a band. play with i have no connections that way yeah but it for me and i'm not saying this it's right or wrong for me it is about playing the music i love so i love taking the the drum tracks out of fucking songs and fucking jamming to them and i love posting it because it's not always the most stellar drumming out there it's not but what i do is i turn on a song i record it first take no edits no second take and i'd release that so everything you see me post on social media is the first and only take of that song yeah i've made a few videos i had an instagram with a bunch of guitar videos and then i deleted it for whatever reason and now they're all they're all gone oh you don't have the videos even yeah I had like these really awesome improvs I did over like backing tracks it was some good shredding but I I don't know but now I'm back into playing and I've been trying to set aside time for it but sometimes like lately in the past week I've just stayed up to like midnight or stayed past my bedtime and just play because it's like hard to get myself to do it sometimes but once I do I'm same way.

SPEAKER_01: 41:24

I have almost anxiety around starting playing and I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00: 41:28

No there is something to that thank god you mentioned that I've never talked about something so like a fair no you're right you know what I mean it's like you want to sit down and play your best and if you don't you end up shitting on yourself because I totally get that you sit behind the kid and you can't or whatever instrument you can't play it to the level you want or you know like for drumming it's like I'm playing out of time a little bit or I can't get that chop down or I get tired I get winded too quick or you know I don't when you become a certain level musician which you are and I am you want a certain level of perfection out of it. You want a certain quality of playing that if you don't get you kind of get taken out of it or it's like you're disappointed in yourself. I totally get that there is an absolute anxiety to simply sitting down and playing for that exact reason. And for people who don't give a shit about their quality of playing which I think is probably a majority of people probably wouldn't understand that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:23

Yeah so you gotta almost not care too much. And then once you get going you're like oh what was I afraid of it's no big deal. Every fucking time every time and I try and tell myself that like remember last time you did that it was and it still isn't always effective.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

I hate you I hear you but it was a great talking to you but I'm gonna have to call it so next time we can get on on the main vein you know absolutely yeah I was I I definitely wanted to do this intro to really get kind of lay the groundwork and then we'll we'll tackle it more you know we'll absolutely we'll get on top of that. So I'll go ahead and do the sign off Jake you know him you love him you'll never see him again you'll see me again he'll be back on the show and hopefully he gets a social media going so maybe he'll uh he'll uh get some of his stuff out there maybe he and I'll together we'll get some stuff out there but anyway good night for bottom hooy be three thanks for letting me do my first podcast Nick no problem man and too too many many many many more my friend all right don't look to the bottle the knife or the gun look to the soul you'll become we will talk to you later buddy you have a good night you too many bye